Fix the Elemental Wheel

[Andrien]

I'll wait for an official announcement that this is the case, or for empirical evidence to surface, that cure spells actually respond to an increase of water stats.

However, it seems rather arbitrary to me to make all spells corresponding to other elements destructive (while also being able to say of at least some of them that they possess some positive aspect in their constitution) and yet, single out water to be solely a healing element. If that was part of the reasoning, I find it inconsistent and, as I said, arbitrary.

I saved you the trouble of searching for it.

There aren't any water-based attack spells, but conjurers do control water-based spells. The break down of elements are as follows:
CNJ: Water/Wind/Earth
THM: Fire/Ice/Lightning

Also, there are no paralyze/poison/silence/absorb/slow and there aren't any plans to implement them before the launch of version 2.0. However, as we move forward, if it becomes absolutely necessary to utilize them, we will look into it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...982#post453982

[Starlord]

standards of imaginary worlds to be maintained.

In an Imaginary world... there no "Standard". Because everything is made up ( not real).. Its suppose to be fun and creative . Expand your mind.. and not just seclude yourself to 1 particular thing...

[Rutelor]

In an Imaginary world... there no "Standard". Because everything is made up ( not real).. Its suppose to be fun and creative . Expand your mind.. and not just seclude yourself to 1 particular thing...

There are imaginary worlds, and Imaginary Worlds. We want ours to have consistent lore, and inherent logic. That's all. All the good ones do.

R

[Starlord]

There are imaginary worlds, and Imaginary Worlds. I want ours to have consistent lore, and inherent logic. That's all. All the good ones do.

R

Fixed that for ya

[Nullie]

I've always seen it myself as Earth > Thunder > Water > Fire > Ice > Wind > Earth.

I don't see thunder doing much to earth. Lightning bolt hits the ground...that's about it. Now put that shock in some water and we're cooking. Haha. Course water puts out the fire. Fire melts the ice. I really can't say so much for ice and wind. Would take a lot of wind to try to melt ice, but really could just help water freeze over faster? And the destruction a tornado can do to earth is quite powerful. :3

[Rutelor]

Fixed that for ya

Let's not fool ourselves, Starlord. It's not like you don't have strong opinions about the game, or that you don't express them vehemently. And all kudos to you for that. I will still reserve my right to disagree with you, and that doesn't make me a bad person.

Why would the change of pronoun in that sentence make what I said wrong?

Do you think greater people than us didn't want as individuals what their environments also wanted. Is wanting what you consider to be a decent idea to win over those you perceive as bad ones, in an environment you care about, such a bad thing. I don't feel you think that: Look, you're doing the same.

As a matter of fact, in a few places of this world, we have political systems based around that very concept. It can be messy but it tends to work better than its alternatives. I'm not going to apologize for fighting for what I see fit. I'm intelligent enough to produce good ideas. As I'm sure you are. Let's just have a conversation.

R

[Starlord]

Let's not fool ourselves, Starlord. It's not like you don't have strong opinions about the game, or that you don't express them vehemently. And all kudos to you for that. I will still reserve my right to disagree with you, and that doesn't make me a bad person.

Why would the change of pronoun in that sentence make what I said wrong?

Do you think greater people than us didn't want as individuals what their environments also wanted. Is wanting what you consider to be a decent idea to win over those you perceive as bad ones, in an environment you care about, such a bad thing. I don't feel you think that: Look, you're doing the same.

As a matter of fact, in a few places of this world, we have political systems based around that very concept. It can be messy but it tends to work better than its alternatives. I'm not going to apologize for fighting for what I see fit. I'm intelligent enough to produce good ideas. As I'm sure you are. Let's just have a conversation.

R

When making an Opinion, saying "we" isn't the really best word to say on a Forum.. then you get the: "Who's this we, you mean YOU want it to be this way" type phrases. But now your starting to become a Lecturer which I don't want at the present time so have fun doing what you do best!

[Rutelor]

Thanks for the quote. I had read it once, and I remember I found it as confusing back then as I found it today. I still think the idea of water as exclusive to cure (which I'm not sure is what the quote means) doesn't contribute to the internal logic of the game's mechanics. What about positive aspects in Earth, or Air?

The whole thing seems like an arbitrary, a-posteriori effort to force-streamline a system that wasn't working anymore within their new plan. To me, it smacks of a roughly handled scalpel. As a matter of fact, we know this to be the case. Nobody conceived this foreshortened, truncated structural scheme of the elements as the foundation for anything, or at the beginning of any designing process. It was an inelegant compromise done on-the-run; it sacrificed balance, and as I have said already many times, inner logic.

At the same time, I'll acknowledge it brought a certain equilibrium to the numbers of spells needed, but also a rather unnecessary symmetry to the classes' actions. Evidently the new development team thought this was desirable. Perhaps future announcements will reveal the sense of harmony that removal seemed to push out. I just hope it wasn't a rushed, 11th-hour decision. I never lamented the end of Shell, but I still do not get the camouflaging of Water as something else.

R

[Valmonte]

What you have is a Dual chart (Weak-Partialy Weak) setup, however its incomplete.

The old FFXI chart was easier to work with and easier to understand, i have no idea why they decided to swap it up.

here's FFXI's chart:


This is what we Have now:

[Wynn]

What you have is a Dual chart (Weak-Partialy Weak) setup, however its incomplete.

The original chart was easier to work with and easier to under stand, i have no idea why they decided to swap it up.

here's the original chart:


This is what we Have now:

Saying the first chart is the original chart is misleading, though I'm sure that was not your intention.

To clarify: The first chart is the elemental relationship wheel from XI. The second chart is the elemental relationship wheel for XIV and is what we have always had for this game.