Fix the Elemental Wheel

[Wolfie]

Why isn't fire strong against water? Fire boils water.
Why isn't lightning strong against wind? Lightning supercharges gas molecules to the point where they split.
Why isn't earth strong against fire? Loose, non-flammable solids are generally better at putting out fires than liquids.

[Zyph]

Why isn't fire strong against water? Fire boils water.
Why isn't lightning strong against wind? Lightning supercharges gas molecules to the point where they split.
Why isn't earth strong against fire? Loose, non-flammable solids are generally better at putting out fires than liquids.

I'll tell you what, I'll let you play around with making an elemental wheel that includes all 6 elements with the stipulation that every element has just one "weak to" and just one "strong to" counterpart, and see if you can come up with a wheel that makes more sense than FFXI's.

[Wolfie]

I'll tell you what, I'll let you play around with making an elemental wheel that includes all 6 elements with the stipulation that every element has just one "weak to" and just one "strong to" counterpart, and see if you can come up with a wheel that makes more sense than FFXI's.

Why does it have to be only one wheel?

[Starlord]

I'll tell you what, I'll let you play around with making an elemental wheel that includes all 6 elements with the stipulation that every element has just one "weak to" and just one "strong to" counterpart, and see if you can come up with a wheel that makes more sense than FFXI's.

Point is: Use your imagination to create something new... As my girlfriend always says to me.... "Expand your mind" o.o

[Rutelor]

I agree with your post in general terms. But there are things that bother me more than the sequences within the dual wheel. One aspect of the game has irked me no end after the new class skills, and subsequently the job skills, were implemented: Namely, the fact that, in order to preserve the nuking power of two different casting classes, and to make the elemental separation, the reduction of the number of spells, and the consolidation of combos and AoE effects mutually compatible, the effects of the elements were rendered fuzzy and ambiguous.

The elemental wheel, which--at least in theory--was there (and has been there in many games) as a sort of backbone helping define the theory behind spell-casting and its effects, has instead become muddled with ambiguity, and confusing at the very least. Where the result was supposed to be a feeling of resourcefulness and specificity in certain actions. leading to understanding and maximizing power, spells instead were doomed never to acquire such specificity. Nowadays casting Stone instead of Fire has to do more with what you have available in your actions palette, rather than any effect you desire for your spell, and these decisions and effects don't seem to respond to the elemental wheel logic.

I want an element-biased world, I want a series of lore-supported rules determining those biases, and I want, as a THM/BLM which has come to be the elementalist in this game, to be able to strategize my attacks based on those biases and that lore. Making the CNJ/WHM and the THM/BLM divide among themselves the few elemental spells that were left after the class skill rehash, and the consequent elimination of the AoE toggle, has deprived them of variety, depth and richness and made us into indiscriminate nukers at best.

In all fairness, this game has never had a clearly defined set of elemental-bias rules. Tanaka's initial monstrosity didn't seem to have any gears underneath its surface claims that there was elemental differentiation. After Yoshida's fix, we at least notice a weak sense of elemental bias. But I, and many of my fellow players, don't find this to be enough.

I hope this game somehow manages to find its lost north in the elemental wheel.

R

[Zyph]

Why does it have to be only one wheel?

Simplicity, inter-connectivity, lore-grounded harmony between elements, cycle of life.

Also clearly a large portion of the player base is confused.

[Wolfie]

Simplicity, inter-connectivity, lore-grounded harmony between elements, cycle of life.

Also clearly a large portion of the player base is confused.

How is one model more simple, cyclic, or harmonious than the other? You have the same number of elements, each with a weakness or strength. The fact that people don't know this is because it's not explained well anywhere; on Lodestone or in the game.

Are you sure you're not confused because you've already decided which way an elemental cycle "should be," and because it's different, you don't understand it?

[Volsung]

Really, this again?

First of all, its not real elements, some are matter and others are energy, (earth and water are matter while thunder and fire are energy) ITS MAGIC. Not only that but "wind" doesnt have to behave like wind we know, it could be a vacuum or blades, or hell it could just be devoid of oxygen/other gasses and be a force.

I personally like 2 different wheels because its different.

[SirOleas]

I think the problem here is people seem to be comparing real life to a video game...

Bad idea.

[Wolfie]

I think the problem here is people seem to be comparing real life to a video game...

Bad idea.

I think the real problem is people can't accept FFXIV's own lore and mechanics, and insist on copying FFXI for no good reason. Again.