Removal of Piety and Tenacity for Endwalker

[Liam_Harper]

Piety will depend entirely on Healer MP consumption in Endwalker, with healers likely getting yet another rework, it's hard to say whether or not it will be viable in Endwalker.

Piety will usually be "viable" in prog, but its biggest issue is that it feels bad as a stat. You use it just incase you have to heal more than expected. However, quite often you won't use your entire mana bar and end a fight on 0 mana, so there will be many occasions Piety gives you no benefit, yet it still replaces normal substats while providing no damage either. Tenacity will at least provide 75% the damage of normal substats even if you didn't make use of the mitigation.

It's not particularly fun to lose 1000 potential Det or DH to keep 1000 of a safety stat that will do absolutely nothing 9 times out of 10.

[Azbel]

To take inspiration from the past , i believe in the case of tenacity that it could be made that a certain amount of it could be necessary to survive certain tank buster (namely becoming uncrittable or uncrushable). Exemple : Me (paladin) has 1000 tenacity and my fellow tank a drk has 1500 , to become uncrushable (insert new term here) you need 1300 tenacity. Tank buster comes i get 1 shotted by it because i didnt have enough tenacity. OR you could make tenacity affect the % of dmg reduction that your DCD gives you and give you 10% to DH. I think tenacity and piety needs to be reworked in a way that you would need to balance it with crit and det to get the best out of it. But for that we would need a character sheet that gives you % ...

[bass9020]

How about instead of constantly taking away stats they make them MORE interesting. Miss the days of stats actually having a purpose and substance.

[Kes13a]

I actually use piety... so would miss it

[Yhisa]

Actually....ill raise u 1 higher

Remove materia all together, majority of the jobs is pigeon holed into Crit/direct hit anyway with det being last for most jobs

And believe it or not.....level sync disables materia anyway.....soooo yeah there is that too

Its just there for min / max peoples

[Kolsykol]

The problem is that substats makes a lot of Savage gear more desirable.
Aug Cryptlurker is 530 too, and some of it is BiS.
But you still want a lot of Savage pieces too for the substats.
Removing this stuff would make Savage gear useless at a certain point.

The one thing that bothers me is skill speed and spell speed, but maybe I am biased too because I main MNK.
But holy hell most of the time it feels like either I have way too little or way too much and it's really important.
I don't think that one stat should be such a burden and feel like it's making things a pain in the ass.

I'd maybe just rather Savage gear always be 5-10 ilvls higher, I'd rather take that than have to juggle gear around because of speed.

[Deceptus]

You might not like it but at least Tenacity has it's uses. A full Tenacity build takes roughly 8-10% less damage while only losing out on 2-3% dps vs a crit/DH build.

Tenacity builds are GREAT for new expansion leveling dungeons when you have no idea who you're going to be grouped with.

If I ran the design team:

Tenacity would be a tank stat that would affect healing received (instead of the current use which for some stupid reason increases healing done by the tank to themselves)

Piety would affect MP regen rates and healing done.

Det would go away.

Tanks would get: Tenacity, Skill Speed, and Crit
DPS would get: Crit, DH, and skillspeed / spell speed
Healers would get: Piety, Spellspeed, and Crit

Point is, if Piety and Tenacity are going to be in this game they need to be worth a damn and right now they're not except in extremely niche situations.

[Nethereal]

You might not like it but at least Tenacity has it's uses. A full Tenacity build takes roughly 8-10% less damage while only losing out on 2-3% dps vs a crit/DH build.

Tenacity builds are GREAT for new expansion leveling dungeons when you have no idea who you're going to be grouped with.

If I ran the design team:

Tenacity would be a tank stat that would affect healing received (instead of the current use which for some stupid reason increases healing done by the tank to themselves)

Piety would affect MP regen rates and healing done.

Det would go away.

Tanks would get: Tenacity, Skill Speed, and Crit
DPS would get: Crit, DH, and skillspeed / spell speed
Healers would get: Piety, Spellspeed, and Crit

Point is, if Piety and Tenacity are going to be in this game they need to be worth a damn and right now they're not except in extremely niche situations.

You ironically make a very good point for running piety the way it is right now.

[Kalocin]

Actually....ill raise u 1 higher

Remove materia all together, majority of the jobs is pigeon holed into Crit/direct hit anyway with det being last for most jobs

And believe it or not.....level sync disables materia anyway.....soooo yeah there is that too

Its just there for min / max peoples

Dark knights need to get their skill speed to a certain point with materia or else they'll having ping issues

[Sclair0]

I use tenacity on my tank jobs as a non tank main, primarily because I'm a garbage tank and it helps a lot to cover for my mistakes, especially when I get a brand new healer.

I do think it needs to be buffed a little, because a lot of people find it worthless. But if it is buffed I'd like to see it buffed more into a prog focused materia.

As for piety, I never use it as a WHM main because I have Thin Air. I'd like to see a secondary effect added to piety longterm to make me wanna go for it.