A thought about Zenos as we move in to Endwalker

[Kesey]

Something to remember is that Zenos is the PC (Azem)'s foil - their equal and opposite.

To be more precise, the WOL and Zenos are setup to be potential foils, but two characters aren't "foiled" until one character sees the similarities between themselves and the potential foil and then chooses to be different based upon this evidence. So the WOL and Zenos haven't reached that point. And because this is a video game and every individual player is the WOL causing them to be a generic silent protagonist, the change has to come from Zenos as he will have the greater share of the dialogue.

(This also speaks to the bigger issue of too many redemption arc enemies, but what can you do when significant change has to come from the hero or villain and the hero is a silent protagonist representing a generalized real life player?)

[Lauront]

To be more precise, the WOL and Zenos are setup to be potential foils, but two characters aren't "foiled" until one character sees the similarities between themselves and the potential foil and then chooses to be different based upon this evidence. So the WOL and Zenos haven't reached that point. And because this is a video game and every individual player is the WOL causing them to be a generic silent protagonist, the change has to come from Zenos as he will have the greater share of the dialogue.

(This also speaks to the bigger issue of too many redemption arc enemies, but what can you do when significant change has to come from the hero or villain and the hero is a silent protagonist representing a generalized real life player?)

That's why I think it doesn't preclude them using the soul shards to demonstrate how certain differences in circumstances and/or choices can have very different outcomes. With that said, they could employ it not so much as your typical redemption arc, but just to underscore the whole "foil" point and provide a plot device for him to turn against Fandaniel, perhaps to his own eventual detriment.

[Bright-Flower]

Golbez was being mind controlled wasn't he? That's less a case of redeeming an antagonist so much as freeing a pawn being controlled by the actual villain.

She's not pureblooded garlean, but Fordoloa seems to be heading in that direction if she isn't killed off in the near future. We also have Gaius' redemption, though we didn't really play a part in said redemption, it all happened off screen between us beating him and his reappearance.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'd rather we kill him in the first dungeon, or better yet, have Fandaniel get him killed instead so that we never need to see him ever again.

Agreed 100%. Give someone else the spotlight who is actually a proper character and can grow. Zenos is old and we really don’t need him to stay in the story longer than necessary.

[MoofiaBossVal]

I dread the idea that they're going to try to victimize Zenos. "Oh, he's evil because his soul was warped by Emet during experimentation, or he is the reincarnation of an Ancient who was warped by the Sound!". I don't want yet another sob story. We've had three sob stories in a row with Yotsuyu/Emet/Elidibus. I'm sick and tired of it. It's one of the reasons why I quite liked Valens; he was unapologetically evil. He wasn't evil because of some trauma or whatever; he was an ass because he chose to be.

Zenos is interesting because he is his own thing. He's not trying to takeover the world, not throwing an omnicidal temper tantrum, etc. He just wants the self-satisfaction of a duel and knowing that he was the best warrior who ever lived. That's cool and unique and I'm totally on board for that.

I'd think it could be interesting if Zenos was the reincarnation of Hythlodaeus (who was said to be really good and was initially the first pick for the seat of Azem, but turned it down and suggested you), so Zenos was your friend - your equal - from long ago. But I don't want that to influence his motivations or why he is the way he is.

[Lauront]

On that point, it's the seat of Emet-Selch for which he was chosen, due to the keenness of his sight when it came to distinguishing soul hues, which is said to be slightly better than Emet's own keen sight. Another thing to remember is that the Resonance is a mimicked Echo and in Zenos's, a copy created off the template of Krile's. Also, to Cilia's point, he may be a new soul; I take it he means one of those souls that came after Zodiark stayed the Final Days. It'd go hand in hand with his synthetic Echo.

Although they could link him to Hythlodaeus, I'd find that to be the even stranger connection. Anyhow, I agree with your points, I'd prefer they just let him be what he is out of his own choice.

[RyuDragnier]

Although they could link him to Hythlodaeus, I'd find that to be the even stranger connection. Anyhow, I agree with your points, I'd prefer they just let him be what he is out of his own choice.

I'd think it'd be much more poetic if Hythlodaeus current self had been Louisoix. From what I read about him, he seemed to know more than he was letting on, and seemed to have a plan for every occasion.

[Mixt]

While Endwalker does have a lot of 4 paralells, it also has a few to 10. Anima appearing to be a big deal for starters.

I feel that Fandaniel makes for a decent Seymour stand-in.

[Cilia]

While Endwalker does have a lot of 4 paralells, it also has a few to 10. Anima appearing to be a big deal for starters.

I feel that Fandaniel makes for a decent Seymour stand-in.

I wouldn't say it has lots of parallels to anything yet; we don't know exactly what's going to happen and those are the sorts of things you can only really see in retrospect.

Anima is going to show up, but we have no context for her appearance in this setting. Summons are typically reimagined and redesigned; the latter is already known to be true (though unlike most Anima does have her original designer on board, so that's cool) but we just don't know how or why she's going to be around. (If she turns out to be the tortured spirit of Zenos' mother or something, then we can say there's a parallel.)

I wouldn't really compare Danny Boy to Seymour... we don't really know much about Danny Boy's motivations, but Seymour was typically subdued while Danny Boy's consistently shown himself to be a grandstander, and Seymour had (deranged) reasons for his whole omnicide plan while Danny Boy's stated reason is... that he just hates everyone and everything that much. Not saying things aren't going to or can't go in that direction, but that's just not what I'm seein' at the moment. (Danny Boy's more of a Kefka-type. So far.)

[Lord_Umbra]

I'm more thinking with them hammering in "friend" that Fandanny going do something that makes Zenos swap sides like take Zodiark & Hydaelyn for whatever his goal is and he'll try get rid of Zenos but whatever Emet did to him he did knowing of Fandans plans & Zenos is Emets trump card, or I'm also theorising Anima will be Zenos mother & that will be his turning point I feel like he is very much going to get redeem like Gaius.

Though will say if they do go pure evil I hope he's the final trial & with get God-Zenos fight like God-Kefka, Zenos with power of both Hydaelyn & Zodiark I know people seem think he would let us have one but he has ever been about us/others overcoming a challenge & not fair fights, I say the English trailer line is possibly a reference to such a thing "Well of Souls" is Hydaelyn & "Dark side of Moon" is Zodiark, Zenos wants them both just way he says it in trailer sounds like he's talking about separate things & not same thing. Perhaps it's why we're on the moon he got Hydaelyn & know we're trying to get to Zodiark before him.