A thought about Zenos as we move in to Endwalker

[Lauront]

While we are going to the Moon, that was a big moment and thing in IV, and all the Fan Fest goodies are IV toys... I'm not sold on the idea there's going to be lots of IV parallels. Heavensward had lots of IV feelies too, but other than dragoons (OK, a dragoon) being prominent in the story I don't remember any big allusions to that game... and despite the game having more references and shout-outs than you can shake a stick at, the MSQ at least does maintain a large degree of originality.

If anything it looks like they're drawing on many different FFs, and I would agree that they don't tend to go for outright copy/pastes so much as inspiration MSQ-wise.

Anyway, I am not too wed to the whole idea of Zenos comprising of Azem shards, again mostly because I don't like him - it just seemed like something they could plausibly pull off. If it turns out not to be the case, so much the better. As you say, he has ruled out redemption and more than that, Yoshi has said they don't intend to do half-ways with purer villains like him... so I'd rather they stuck to it. Fandaniel is hinted at harbouring some manner of secret, so they can pursue a deeper story in that way, as opposed to redemption arcs.

Golbez was being mind controlled wasn't he? That's less a case of redeeming an antagonist so much as freeing a pawn being controlled by the actual villain.

She's not pureblooded garlean, but Fordoloa seems to be heading in that direction if she isn't killed off in the near future. We also have Gaius' redemption, though we didn't really play a part in said redemption, it all happened off screen between us beating him and his reappearance.

I agree, she is a closer fit.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'd rather we kill him in the first dungeon, or better yet, have Fandaniel get him killed instead so that we never need to see him ever again.

Agreed 100%. Give someone else the spotlight who is actually a proper character and can grow. Zenos is old and we really don’t need him to stay in the story longer than necessary.

[MoofiaBossVal]

I dread the idea that they're going to try to victimize Zenos. "Oh, he's evil because his soul was warped by Emet during experimentation, or he is the reincarnation of an Ancient who was warped by the Sound!". I don't want yet another sob story. We've had three sob stories in a row with Yotsuyu/Emet/Elidibus. I'm sick and tired of it. It's one of the reasons why I quite liked Valens; he was unapologetically evil. He wasn't evil because of some trauma or whatever; he was an ass because he chose to be.

Zenos is interesting because he is his own thing. He's not trying to takeover the world, not throwing an omnicidal temper tantrum, etc. He just wants the self-satisfaction of a duel and knowing that he was the best warrior who ever lived. That's cool and unique and I'm totally on board for that.

I'd think it could be interesting if Zenos was the reincarnation of Hythlodaeus (who was said to be really good and was initially the first pick for the seat of Azem, but turned it down and suggested you), so Zenos was your friend - your equal - from long ago. But I don't want that to influence his motivations or why he is the way he is.

[Lauront]

On that point, it's the seat of Emet-Selch for which he was chosen, due to the keenness of his sight when it came to distinguishing soul hues, which is said to be slightly better than Emet's own keen sight. Another thing to remember is that the Resonance is a mimicked Echo and in Zenos's, a copy created off the template of Krile's. Also, to Cilia's point, he may be a new soul; I take it he means one of those souls that came after Zodiark stayed the Final Days. It'd go hand in hand with his synthetic Echo.

Although they could link him to Hythlodaeus, I'd find that to be the even stranger connection. Anyhow, I agree with your points, I'd prefer they just let him be what he is out of his own choice.

[RyuDragnier]

Although they could link him to Hythlodaeus, I'd find that to be the even stranger connection. Anyhow, I agree with your points, I'd prefer they just let him be what he is out of his own choice.

I'd think it'd be much more poetic if Hythlodaeus current self had been Louisoix. From what I read about him, he seemed to know more than he was letting on, and seemed to have a plan for every occasion.

[Mixt]

While Endwalker does have a lot of 4 paralells, it also has a few to 10. Anima appearing to be a big deal for starters.

I feel that Fandaniel makes for a decent Seymour stand-in.

[Lord_Umbra]

I'm more thinking with them hammering in "friend" that Fandanny going do something that makes Zenos swap sides like take Zodiark & Hydaelyn for whatever his goal is and he'll try get rid of Zenos but whatever Emet did to him he did knowing of Fandans plans & Zenos is Emets trump card, or I'm also theorising Anima will be Zenos mother & that will be his turning point I feel like he is very much going to get redeem like Gaius.

Though will say if they do go pure evil I hope he's the final trial & with get God-Zenos fight like God-Kefka, Zenos with power of both Hydaelyn & Zodiark I know people seem think he would let us have one but he has ever been about us/others overcoming a challenge & not fair fights, I say the English trailer line is possibly a reference to such a thing "Well of Souls" is Hydaelyn & "Dark side of Moon" is Zodiark, Zenos wants them both just way he says it in trailer sounds like he's talking about separate things & not same thing. Perhaps it's why we're on the moon he got Hydaelyn & know we're trying to get to Zodiark before him.

[Cilia]

While Endwalker does have a lot of 4 paralells, it also has a few to 10. Anima appearing to be a big deal for starters.

I feel that Fandaniel makes for a decent Seymour stand-in.

I wouldn't say it has lots of parallels to anything yet; we don't know exactly what's going to happen and those are the sorts of things you can only really see in retrospect.

Anima is going to show up, but we have no context for her appearance in this setting. Summons are typically reimagined and redesigned; the latter is already known to be true (though unlike most Anima does have her original designer on board, so that's cool) but we just don't know how or why she's going to be around. (If she turns out to be the tortured spirit of Zenos' mother or something, then we can say there's a parallel.)

I wouldn't really compare Danny Boy to Seymour... we don't really know much about Danny Boy's motivations, but Seymour was typically subdued while Danny Boy's consistently shown himself to be a grandstander, and Seymour had (deranged) reasons for his whole omnicide plan while Danny Boy's stated reason is... that he just hates everyone and everything that much. Not saying things aren't going to or can't go in that direction, but that's just not what I'm seein' at the moment. (Danny Boy's more of a Kefka-type. So far.)

[DamianFatale]

I think Zenos might actually be us. Literally. Somehow I think his soul might be part of Azem, and that is why he calls us friend. We are literally his friend. Regardless of the circumstance or outcome, save for us both dying, whoever died first would absorb into the other.

In my opinion, I think this whole Shard and soul thing might have influences from the bible. While I am not a believer of it, the stories we can draw inspiration from are amazing. Take this for instance. "During the times of Enosh, mankind made a great mistake, and the wise men of that generation gave thoughtless counsel. Enosh himself was one of those who erred. Their mistake was as follows: They said God created stars and spheres with which to control the world. He placed them on high and treated them with honor, making them servants who minister before Him. Accordingly, it is fitting to praise and glorify them and to treat them with honor. [They perceived] this to be the will of God, blessed be He, that they magnify and honor those whom He magnified and honored, just as a king desires that the servants who stand before him be honored. Indeed, doing so is an expression of honor to the king."

If you take part of Azem, and ad it to Enos or Enosh, you get Z-enos. If you take the concept of the first, the source, and all the other shards, you get the great mistake of a former mankind, and all the stars/spheres of each shard.

[Kesey]

I think Zenos might actually be us. Literally. Somehow I think his soul might be part of Azem, and that is why he calls us friend. We are literally his friend. Regardless of the circumstance or outcome, save for us both dying, whoever died first would absorb into the other.

In my opinion, I think this whole Shard and soul thing might have influences from the bible. While I am not a believer of it, the stories we can draw inspiration from are amazing. Take this for instance. "During the times of Enosh, mankind made a great mistake, and the wise men of that generation gave thoughtless counsel. Enosh himself was one of those who erred. Their mistake was as follows: They said God created stars and spheres with which to control the world. He placed them on high and treated them with honor, making them servants who minister before Him. Accordingly, it is fitting to praise and glorify them and to treat them with honor. [They perceived] this to be the will of God, blessed be He, that they magnify and honor those whom He magnified and honored, just as a king desires that the servants who stand before him be honored. Indeed, doing so is an expression of honor to the king."

If you take part of Azem, and ad it to Enos or Enosh, you get Z-enos. If you take the concept of the first, the source, and all the other shards, you get the great mistake of a former mankind, and all the stars/spheres of each shard.

Zenos is probably a reference to the philosopher Zeno who wrote a book of paradoxes that defended philosophy. We know only about him second hand by Plato and Aristotle as paradoxically his written works haven't survived into modern times.

Zenos, at the very least, is a paradox as he is the only non-Ascian who has returned from the dead after certain death.