"Play XIV if(cont)" and"you have a responsibility to" are not statements that coexist

[Penthea]

I just want to respond to this part specifically without trying to take anything away from the overall point of the post.

Once again, I'll just say that toxic people not being toxic is irrelevant.

This goes to an increasingly common phenomenon that I've been seeing lately where if someone says something positive about FFXIV's community, someone else eventually seems to want to say that the community is actually filled with toxic people who are just not toxic because of either the lower failure rate and lack of need to communicate or because of fearing enforcement of the rules and the possibility of being banned.

I actually think this game's community is great. There are of course some bad eggs but this is impossible to entirely avoid. What I wanted to do is dispel this idea that raiding is where so many of these unpleasant people go to. It's not, there's no special content that has more meanspirited people than others. There are only situations where a person's true nature is easier to see.

Another thing is that people don't seem to realize that passive aggressive behavior, unless very subtly done, is still toxic behavior, and in fact can go against the prohibition on nuisance behavior, specifically on obstruction of play. So that is subject to report as well.

I completely agree with this. A lot of toxicity is hidden under layers of deception. I personally find the worst people are those who choose to engage in their awful activities through more subtle means. It's more difficult to catch them in the act, but the damage they can do can be very high. Someone who is openly very horrible is easy to spot and therefore easier to avoid.

Whether that means it has successfully created a better environment would differ from player to player, but certainly it would support people who speak positively about the community.

I have said many times, though not in this thread, that one of the main reasons why WoW's community, especially its high-end pve section, doesn't have a very good reputation is because Blizzard's approach to that game nurtures an environment where many people feel that being elitist is the best path to success. Of course not everyone is like this, and I would go as far as to say the majority aren't, however enough are that the high-end pve community is widely known for not being friendly. Because Blizzard push the raiding scene so much, often at the cost at the state of the rest of the game, they're sending a message that high-end pve is the only content worth doing. And some people process this as "well if you can't do it then you're just a worthless pleb".

SE cater to their multifaceted audience a lot better by pushing the idea that there are many valid avenues of personal progress. Which means players are less likely to look down on those who do not engage in their favoured content because SE very clearly acknowledges the merits of enjoying many different approaches to the game. Raiders and non-raiders do mix in WoW, but no where near the scale as to how they do in FFXIV. The divide between these two groups is a lot smaller in FFXIV because there are other activities they enjoy that they have in common. Which then results in a healthier community overall.

Of course though another thing is how Blizzard and SE handle poor behaviour. It's not a secret that SE are far more strict on what they view to be good behaviour. Furthermore because SE are often unclear as to exactly what poor behaviour is, some people abstain from saying things they would say in other games out of the fear of getting reported. Some may say this is a good thing, but I personally think it's an issue. Sometimes a player is actually doing something wrong. Not everyone who points this out is a bad person, often they're just trying to help the group have an easier time. I don't think it's a good thing for players to not comment on something that could actually help the party out of fear that someone would take it the wrong way and then report them. I am fine with SE being more strict than Blizzard, but I'm not fine with how ambiguous the line between good and bad behaviour is. But this is another topic of conversation that is drawing away from the actual topic of this thread.