"Play XIV if(cont)" and"you have a responsibility to" are not statements that coexist

[Reinha]

Can people not enjoy a final fantasy game and play well at the same time?

Just tell people that you don't know the raid mechanics and people will help. You are supposed to know how to play your job, though. Double pulls are possible even in a dungeon you are new to, because they are all similar enough.

[SturmChurro]

Can people not enjoy a final fantasy game and play well at the same time?

Just tell people that you don't know the raid mechanics and people will help. You are supposed to know how to play your job, though. Double pulls are possible even in a dungeon you are new to, because they are all similar enough.

Oh, so that's what this thread is about? Yeah, for real. Apparently, playing well is heresy according to some. Heck, not even "well", how about playing at an "acceptable" level.

[EirolOcarrol]

Oh, so that's what this thread is about? Yeah, for real. Apparently, playing well is heresy according to some. Heck, not even "well", how about playing at an "acceptable" level.

I don't think it's a heresy to anyone. There's a reason that they've banned some streamers using parsers for calling out other people and being toxic.

Being able to clear dungeons ought to be enough. But this forum already has many people who immediately shoot down ideas because "this might ruin the balance and nobody wants to have someone in their party with slightly less job efficiency". That degree of hyperfocus on efficiency, any everything outside of it being limited to limit jobs, seems obsessive. Every job has always been able to clear all dungeons. And a hyperfocus on efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, at the cost of anything that might bring diversity to play. Seems like an unhealthy fixation. Not to mention people not being accommodating to new players. You don't have to be a sprout to be new. People who rushed through the MSQ are still sprouts in a sense, even if the game doesn't call them sprouts.

There are people out there who will downright tell people that they don't deserve to play Final Fantasy XIV because of a mistake they made. And that's not healthy for any game, let alone a Final Fantasy game.

[Brightamethyst]

Being able to clear dungeons ought to be enough. But this forum already has many people who immediately shoot down ideas because "this might ruin the balance and nobody wants to have someone in their party with slightly less job efficiency". That degree of hyperfocus on efficiency, any everything outside of it being limited to limit jobs, seems obsessive. Every job has always been able to clear all dungeons. And a hyperfocus on efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, at the cost of anything that might bring diversity to play. Seems like an unhealthy fixation.

There are different ways of measuring success. Yes, clearing a dungeon is an objective, true/false statement, but it's not the only part of the equation. No one complains about people being sub-optimal. They complain about people being bad. There's a big difference. Failing a new mechanic a few times is fine, and completely understandable. Never getting better at said mechanic even after learning how it works is poor play (in normal content. I'm not talking about things like savage where mechanics are intentionally hard even when you do understand them.).

If a tank wants to take it slow, or someone new to a job is doing low DPS, or we wipe because a sprout doesn't understand mechanics, or whatever, cool. It's part of the normal experience. It may turn a 20 minute dungeon into a 30 minute dungeon but that's within the standard deviation and few people will complain about it. If that 20 minute dungeon turns into a 45 minute dungeon though? Even if you clear in the end something was objectively wrong.

[NanaWiloh]

I don't think it's a heresy to anyone. There's a reason that they've banned some streamers using parsers for calling out other people and being toxic.

Being able to clear dungeons ought to be enough. But this forum already has many people who immediately shoot down ideas because "this might ruin the balance and nobody wants to have someone in their party with slightly less job efficiency". That degree of hyperfocus on efficiency, any everything outside of it being limited to limit jobs, seems obsessive. Every job has always been able to clear all dungeons. And a hyperfocus on efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, at the cost of anything that might bring diversity to play. Seems like an unhealthy fixation. Not to mention people not being accommodating to new players. You don't have to be a sprout to be new. People who rushed through the MSQ are still sprouts in a sense, even if the game doesn't call them sprouts.

There are people out there who will downright tell people that they don't deserve to play Final Fantasy XIV because of a mistake they made. And that's not healthy for any game, let alone a Final Fantasy game.

I play to the best of my ability, I dont mind people who parse. But as someone who does not do savage or Ultimate my performance in my mind is my own business. I have hidden my logs ON THE SITE that shall not be mentioned for this reason; and the fact that someone chose to jump on my tail here on the forum about not parsing high. Even worse said player was hiding behind an alt!!! Which explains my signature :P If you are hiding your logs or hiding behind an alt, then you got no business critizing other players about their logs.

Just my two cents on that matter

[Awha]

I don't think it's a heresy to anyone. There's a reason that they've banned some streamers using parsers for calling out other people and being toxic.

Being able to clear dungeons ought to be enough. But this forum already has many people who immediately shoot down ideas because "this might ruin the balance and nobody wants to have someone in their party with slightly less job efficiency". That degree of hyperfocus on efficiency, any everything outside of it being limited to limit jobs, seems obsessive. Every job has always been able to clear all dungeons. And a hyperfocus on efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, at the cost of anything that might bring diversity to play. Seems like an unhealthy fixation. Not to mention people not being accommodating to new players. You don't have to be a sprout to be new. People who rushed through the MSQ are still sprouts in a sense, even if the game doesn't call them sprouts.

There are people out there who will downright tell people that they don't deserve to play Final Fantasy XIV because of a mistake they made. And that's not healthy for any game, let alone a Final Fantasy game.

So more or less you are saying assholes will be assholes? That has nothing to do with FFXIV in general that is just a product of some people just not being nice.

This may be an RPG but it is an MMO first, which means you are going to run into other people, and people are under no obligation to like one another. Run into an asshole ignore them and move on. Cause end of the day they do not care about your feelings or anything you are going through, so you are wasting your time letting what they say get to you. To them you are irrelevant, and tbh they should also be irrelevant to you.

[Lanadra]

I don't think it's a heresy to anyone. There's a reason that they've banned some streamers using parsers for calling out other people and being toxic.

Being able to clear dungeons ought to be enough. But this forum already has many people who immediately shoot down ideas because "this might ruin the balance and nobody wants to have someone in their party with slightly less job efficiency". That degree of hyperfocus on efficiency, any everything outside of it being limited to limit jobs, seems obsessive. Every job has always been able to clear all dungeons. And a hyperfocus on efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, at the cost of anything that might bring diversity to play. Seems like an unhealthy fixation. Not to mention people not being accommodating to new players. You don't have to be a sprout to be new. People who rushed through the MSQ are still sprouts in a sense, even if the game doesn't call them sprouts.

There are people out there who will downright tell people that they don't deserve to play Final Fantasy XIV because of a mistake they made. And that's not healthy for any game, let alone a Final Fantasy game.

This to me sounds like you didn't take the responses to your subjobs thread very well. For me personally it isn't even about efficiency, as I said in that thread, I just don't like a system that suddenly cordons off part of what I could use without limitations before.

[Gameovers]

This to me sounds like you didn't take the responses to your subjobs thread very well. For me personally it isn't even about efficiency, as I said in that thread, I just don't like a system that suddenly cordons off part of what I could use without limitations before.

I agree with you 100% It does sound like that.

[EirolOcarrol]

This to me sounds like you didn't take the responses to your subjobs thread very well. For me personally it isn't even about efficiency, as I said in that thread, I just don't like a system that suddenly cordons off part of what I could use without limitations before.

It was just one contributing factor, I assure you, but it was an influence, along with the recent thread about bringing back elemental damage. I won't lie that I was disheartened by several people, not everyone, but many people, saying that because it's inefficient, and doesn't mesh with the metagame, that "no one will want to have someone with sub-optimal skills". And, I think that speaks more poorly of negative cultural MMORPG trends than anything, especially if/when people would be behaving that way in content that isn't Savage or Ultimate.

I'd also like to share that I'm not against this sort of thing, or trying your best. It's good to want to help others. And there's nothing wrong with liking a challenge. I personally am trying to find some practice parties for Deltscape Savage. And have been watching videos about Neo Exdeath repeatedly. I don't suppose it's against the rules for me to solicit a bit of help here, I'd appreciate any help on Crystal Data Center! Mostly because I covet Genji Gear, if I'm honest. I really like the tank weapons. And the Genta Oyoroi of Fending is probably my favourite piece of armor in the game, especially for tanks. And Genji gear basically being a dyeable exclusive version of Genta gear, it has essentially become my glamour Endgame, as someone who wants to look like a Samurai tank. And I'm willing to do what it takes to make that a reality, including asking my friends to help me out, watching and studying videos repeatedly, and trying my absolute best to clear it and hold my own.

But this is a special use case scenario, for a niche glamour want. It's completely optional content, and old one at that, and doesn't fit the use case of every player. Not everyone has, and will, want to do this. And most content isn't like this. Even then, while I need to be able to say this from personal experience, from others, I've been told dps checks are fairly lenient. Plus, Savage can be done unsynced. Meaning in this case, learning to do things like deal with the Black Wound and White Wound mechanics should be more important than having a perfectly efficient dps.

But even if that is not the case, it is niche content, and perfection shouldn't be expected outside of Savage, Extreme, Unreal, or Ultimate, if even that.

[Arillyn]

Can people not enjoy a final fantasy game and play well at the same time?

Just tell people that you don't know the raid mechanics and people will help. You are supposed to know how to play your job, though. Double pulls are possible even in a dungeon you are new to, because they are all similar enough.

So much this. I love final fantasy games. I also enjoy MMOs. I'm glad I get to do both in this game. I love the story. I also try and play my best in everything I go in to. It's fun watching mobs melt.