ranger job

[Bright-Flower]

Bard is basically a ranger and barely a bard at all anymore.

IMO the three songs it cycles between that each give different buffs and mechanics makes it feel pretty bard like.

[Cetek14]

IMO the three songs it cycles between that each give different buffs and mechanics makes it feel pretty bard like.

This is huge problem with mixing 2 jobs. For me its Bard, and I don't like it in the long run because its not Archer. While other people will say its Archer, and they not like it because its not 100% Bard.
The same problem with Machinist. Gunners are not satisfied, while Machinist fans claim it still needs more machinery.

[ForteNightshade]

IMO the three songs it cycles between that each give different buffs and mechanics makes it feel pretty bard like.

Except those songs only interact with your party is an arbitrary and passive way. When people say "it's a Bard in name only," they're speaking towards all the abilities gutted throughout Heavensward and Stormblood that emphasised its support nature. Look at what Shadowbringers offered: all various archer related abilities (Burst Shot, Shadowbite and Apex Arrow). The aforementioned song buffs only came every a full year of begging. And as mentioned, the player has no direct interaction with them. You're going to perform your rotation in the same sequence 99% of the time, thus the buffs may as well not exist.

Bard right now is basically an Archer with some songs. That's why it went from the most popular DPS in Stormblood to the least in Shadowbringers. To say people aren't satisficed is a massive understatement. Perhaps the only job with less fanfare this expansion is the much maligned Monk.

This is huge problem with mixing 2 jobs. For me its Bard, and I don't like it in the long run because its not Archer. While other people will say its Archer, and they not like it because its not 100% Bard.
The same problem with Machinist. Gunners are not satisfied, while Machinist fans claim it still needs more machinery.

Correction: It's only a huge problem with the team designing them lack creativity. Stormblood Bard married the hybrid nature near perfectly. It only suffers now because, for whatever reason, the dev team convinced themselves they can't have two support jobs in one role. So they shoehorned Bard into something it was never intended to be. Ironically, it's that same mentality that resulted in Bowmage, where they tried to force a design made for Machinist onto Bard without thinking how it might impact the job.

They desperately need some fresh perspectives going forward because a lot of jobs feel like they've simply run out of ideas.

[ItMe]

Ironically, it's that same mentality that resulted in Bowmage, where they tried to force a design made for Machinist onto Bard without thinking how it might impact the job.

Correction: them giving the ranged classes cast bars wasn't a MCH design, it was another attempt at addressing the DPS tax on ranged classes.

[Bright-Flower]

Correction: them giving the ranged classes cast bars wasn't a MCH design, it was another attempt at addressing the DPS tax on ranged classes.

I think it just happened to work a bit better for MCH because in HW MCH was designed with the idea in mind, where as it was more slapped onto Bard at the same time.

[Jirah]

Correction: them giving the ranged classes cast bars wasn't a MCH design, it was another attempt at addressing the DPS tax on ranged classes.

more of a misconception unless it came from the devs themselves. Have they even said the word DPS tax before?

[ItMe]

more of a misconception unless it came from the devs themselves. Have they even said the word DPS tax before?

The devs have spoken about how ranged characters being able to freely move and attack at all times with nothing much to interrupt them means they have to have lower damage than a class that has a high damage output that is frequently interrupted.
Giving them cast bars was their way to bring them in line with the other jobs conceptually, but their feedback said players enjoyed the freedom from ranged DPS more so they undid it.
So, yes.
But the words "dps tax" specifically?
No. That is a user name for the concept.

[Savagelf]

i been of mind set that bard should have bow an a harp and harp should an off-hand weapon. as should machinist have his gun and tool box and these add effect to ability the these two jobs. as i am mind ranger should crossbow and a bolt quiver as well. why do i want hawk i think SE need get good concept for pet jobs. i like machinist but i like it before they remove turret effects make turret limit on time frame

picture the harp give bonus effect and tool box for machinist aswell. we would have include dancer through i think dancer weapons should be split into main hand and offhand. it same thing i feel about ninja i think dagger could be made into two weapons

ranger should have crossbow because it cool weapon picture a Miq'ate weild a hand cross bow

[ItMe]

i been of mind set that bard should have bow an a harp and harp should an off-hand weapon.

I do not understand the logistics of shooting a bow with a single hand, and playing a harp with the other single hand.
Am I misreading you?

[ForteNightshade]

Correction: them giving the ranged classes cast bars wasn't a MCH design, it was another attempt at addressing the DPS tax on ranged classes.

Yes, but that wasn't my point. I was referencing the fact Machinist was built with castbars in mind whereas they shoehorned them into Bard. Which is more or less a repeat of what happened in Shadowbringers. They neutered Bard's support identity in favor of giving that role to Dancer with no consideration how it might impact the overall appeal. Lo and behold, it's gone over extremely poorly.