ranger job

[Nothv13]

i think yoshi P struggle is more understand pet jobs then not like them they hard to balance against non pet jobs. the question for pets job is how much dps does pet generate and how much does player generate vs how a non pet job player generate

the solution to balance a pet job is pretty easy through

a summoner and her pet equal the same amount dps as does a normal dps job together.

if your black mage= summoner and it pet

if you adopt this view to pet jobs then it work pretty well i like ask yoshi p why is he dislike pet jobs i think normal devs dislike would balance

This is overly simplistic of pet jobs. And ignores things like coding issues, ai, scenarios such as the pet being killed, or so invulnerable it is just a passive dps (which is piss poor design) and not really a pet anymore. Pet jobs are notoriously hard to balance in every single MMO.

[Savagelf]

doesn't mean they should be add in fact if one has bias toward pet job their be more will to add more them so one can take time understand why some of us like little fuzzy carbruncle or hawk or dragonling or any other pet that go with pet jobs

[Shougun]

I don't mind them becoming invulnerable in general, but I wish Titan would have kept his HP bar and at least covered the player (like a Paladin) - he now just feels like a buffer rather than a tanky pet. Bit unfortunate. Of course having them gain a more tangible sense would be nice but one of the wild hurdles of pet jobs. If they make mechanics target a pet then oof, if they don't then usually they only die due to raid wide which makes managing their health usually non-issue (unless they're too weak, in which case it is an issue but a super annoying one). I think it solves a number of issues at least, and while not the fanciest solution does do what it sets out to do (remove major balance concerns about pets, and makes them easier to 'manage' the delays and ghosting excluded).

For pet health, I've had a few thoughts but one I don't think I mentioned before is perhaps egi start out with high defense but over time lose strength. Perhaps a non-heal-able hp bar that deteriorates over time. Combine this with a tweak to the egi (or summoning system in general) such that it doesn't cause a huge disruption with the demi thing and maybe there are more egi, with perhaps more personal flavor, and you've now a cycling system where for a period of time you can not worry but at some point you will need to alternate to restore their 'purity' (or because they got rofl stomped by a mechanic). Some system, or cooldown, used so you can't just simply recast the egi you used last and restore purity. It'd work for three, especially if you improve response time and make ghosting less of an issue (and ideally give the melee some sort of gap closer or something), but I feel if you upped the count that it would allow for some more specific decision making opportunities (naturally you start out with 'the best' for the situation, but as the situation evolves and your egi looses purity you'd have to make further decisions- rather than just sitting on one egi the entire time). If it's three you'll very likely just bounce between Ifrit and Garuda mostly. If say Shiva was all rounder with cc, Ramuh blitz / recovery and ranged damaged (bursty- good while sitting around waiting for the boss to come back, and maybe with recovery mechanics, like if you died), etc- then you might go from Ifrit to Ramuh to Titan back to Ifrit. Can't be giving Titan huge amounts of hp and Paladin cover though, so the first idea wouldn't combine fairly with the second- the first was only if Titan stays untarget-able.

Major issue with pets imo is the ghosting and delays. It's been ages since I played WoW as a hunter but I just don't recall having so many troubles with them. I think this is one reason why there is a group of players who just want to move to more of Dissida solution to summoning, more than already is (even less pet elements). Even if you keep things invulnerable just making things snappier and less error prone would make pets more fun.

[linayar]

he now just feels like a buffer rather than a tanky pet.

As it should be, in my opinion. The player character should always be the one in danger regardless if that character has a pet. If they want titan-egi to help the summoner be able to tank a little bit more in cases where the tanks are dead, then they can provide more utilities to titan-egi, but still keep the enmity on the summoner.

[Shougun]

As it should be, in my opinion. The player character should always be the one in danger regardless if that character has a pet. If they want titan-egi to help the summoner be able to tank a little bit more in cases where the tanks are dead, then they can provide more utilities to titan-egi, but still keep the enmity on the summoner.

That's why I said he would Paladin cover you, which means summoner still has enmity (but titan is 'tanking'). Although I don't necessarily think it always has to be that way in all mmos. I have fond memories of using my pet to tank in WoW. Decently fond memories in FFXIV before the titan nerf. Titan feels bleh in comparison, imo, to the other gameplay mechanics I had experienced (not useless, just doesn't feel quite right as a fun and flow factor). I know they took away because they felt they couldn't balance them, hence why I had the makeshift "not a buffer, but still tanks via cover" concept.

Technically I've even made feedback on the benefits of making them untargetable long before they were made so (at the time people discussing balance issues and potential solutions), so I get it why it might have been changed-- I just kind of like the idea he's tanking over buffing, even if Summoner is the focus / enmity holder. I think at the time it was something like some hp on summon, may need a cooldown or mp cost (just on him), with a damage to hp mechanic such that as he deals damage some of it is converted into his shield for you (so like his ultimate in a pack of monsters would be synergistic). It's a slight QoL change (auto-covers, with hp, as if you had summoned him before he lost his hp bar and he had enmity) and mostly a conceptual change, but yes anyways to what you were responding to I didn't actually change the 'target' while also allowing him to sort of tank (just for the summoner).

[linayar]

That's why I said he would Paladin cover you, which means summoner still has enmity (but titan is 'tanking'). Although I don't necessarily think it always has to be that way in all mmos. I have fond memories of using my pet to tank in WoW. Decently fond memories in FFXIV before the titan nerf. Titan feels bleh in comparison, imo, to the other gameplay mechanics I had experienced (not useless, just doesn't feel quite right as a fun and flow factor). I know they took away because they felt they couldn't balance them, hence why I had the makeshift "not a buffer, but still tanks via cover" concept.

Technically I've even made feedback on the benefits of making them untargetable long before they were made so (at the time people discussing balance issues and potential solutions), so I get it why it might have been changed-- I just kind of like the idea he's tanking over buffing, even if Summoner is the focus / enmity holder. I think at the time it was something like some hp on summon, may need a cooldown or mp cost (just on him), with a damage to hp mechanic such that as he deals damage some of it is converted into his shield for you (so like his ultimate in a pack of monsters would be synergistic). It's a slight QoL change (auto-covers, with hp, as if you had summoned him before he lost his hp bar and he had enmity) and mostly a conceptual change, but yes anyways to what you were responding to I didn't actually change the 'target' while also allowing him to sort of tank (just for the summoner).

A cover is fine as long as they don't bring back pet HP. So it basically works like a temporary "invulnerability" instead, but should be very limited, just enough to bring back tank ASAP ideally.

And yes, I understand about actual pet tanking, but things like what apparently happened with Ramuh just should not exist, and I don't really like the idea in general, unless the summoner becomes the summon or the summon replaces the summoner temporarily. That's one way I could like pet "tanking" in this game.

I think the issue with titan can be remedied by just giving it more utilities that can differentiate it in specific situations. It doesn't require a return to the old pet mechanism.

[Shougun]

A cover is fine as long as they don't bring back pet HP. So it basically works like a temporary "invulnerability" instead, but should be very limited, just enough to bring back tank ASAP ideally.

And yes, I understand about actual pet tanking, but things like what apparently happened with Ramuh just should not exist, and I don't really like the idea in general, unless the summoner becomes the summon or the summon replaces the summoner temporarily. That's one way I could like pet "tanking" in this game.

I think the issue with titan can be remedied by just giving it more utilities that can differentiate it in specific situations. It doesn't require a return to the old pet mechanism.

I think the HP, if Titan remains untargetable and doesn't get to keep his 90% magic reduction lol, would be fine as you wouldn't be able to reproduce Ramuh situation with a cover titan then (because he auto-covers you on summon and has hp from the start, basically front loading Earthen Armor (so he gets a different egi-2 move), it would likely be Titan has 15-25% of your max health, and doesn't 'die' at zero, rather he just has no buffer to offer, also why I mentioned the hp regeneration mechanic so titan could restore his buffer and that mechanic would have some synergy with his other skills, like his ultimate and particularly if you were in large groups). Ultimately I just want to note it's not needed in the slightest, but I would have preferred it as it helps maintain some of the old concept of "tanks" while entirely dodging Ramuh tank issues (which I understand people want to avoid, having it via this way would return it to a far more he's there for you vibe over almost like he's your pocket healer rather than tank "BUFF ME" "AGAIN".. would like it to be "yooooo, happy you're here fighting this trash with me"). All posted due to the vibe shift I don't appreciate (while I also understand we can't return to Summoner replacing tanks in dungeons, because obvious reasons lol).

By adding an mp cost, or cooldown (balance, so you can't just recast titan over and over for non-stop freebies), also sort of gives Summoner a chance to potentially weave it in for emergencies more easily than otherwise- say if you had like 5000 mp and 200 hp, raid wide is coming so you use titan which gobbles up the raid wide (and now has no hp), then shift to Ifrit. Rather than "I don't dare use, or maybe even have off cooldown, my egi-assault for earthen fury, so I'm not going to bother summoning titan anyways". Reduces the punishment of bringing him out, makes it faster (cause on summon he'll auto-cover you), and vibes towards tanking (cover) over buffing. But.. I mean you could keep the QoL and not do all the abstraction, simply make him auto-shield you lol, maybe the shield growth mechanic as well (makes him closer to a buffer again though >.>). Which again I wasn't trying to say Titan has zero use, if you get the right opportunity, haven't used your egi-assault, then 30% shield back to back is pretty good (and it does last for a while). The numbers on the shield are not bad, just not in love with the vibe and how you have to get around to using it lol. I believe there are ways, if one wanted 'tank' vibe (not to suggesting everyone cares), that would better represent tanking than what amounts to basically a support mage casting stoneskin while also not having to return to the imbalance of old (Summoner replacing tanks, or messing up mechanics because pet is targeted, and other related 'targeted' issues).

But eh, mild QoL annoyance and conceptual hang up on the shift of imagery that I don't think is quite desirable (but overall both are minor gripes, especially in light to say fixing ghosting, or improving responsiveness). Although in a general sense at any given opportunity I'd love to see each egi / demi have more flavor, over just a target type and potency shift (Titan shield and Phoenix HoT stand out of course, but more 'standing out' where balance isn't damaged would be nice).


As for the later idea-I would love playing with some level 90 mega ultimate transformation skill. I had thought Demiurge, for it's namesake relation to the demi summons, and it's own definition:

a being responsible for the creation of the universe.
(in Platonic philosophy) the Maker or Creator of the world.
(in Gnosticism and other theological systems) a heavenly being, subordinate to the Supreme Being, that is considered to be the controller of the material world and antagonistic to all that is purely spiritual.

Would be fun name opportunity.

Not entirely sure where it would fit in the rotation to feel good and not feel like a weird piece to the rotation puzzle, but Summoner going "primal-like" would be neat. Could have some interesting modifications to the mage rotation side of the job without causing a new sort of chaos lol (like how phoenix works).

[HollyJollyPaca]

That's just a BRD with a glamoured bow. We're getting melee anyway.

[Esmoire]

In the future, maybe they will make bard more bard-like and have a more dirrct-damage-baed ranged counterpart to compliment it. Will have to have distinction from MCH which already kind of fills that niche, but if they can do 5 melee I am sure they can figure that out. Maybe 7.0 or 8.0. Not happening 6.0

[DamianFatale]

I love my dancer job so much, but I truly wish there was a traditional ranger job that was like a traditional RPG. The closest we get to that realism is Machinist. A crossbow user that's more of a traditional ranged DPS would be welcome.