Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 1)

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Except, it’s not just that they don’t like the present. The sundering made the world unstable. Not only that but in regards to your genocide comment.It wouldn’t be a cycle of sacrifices. It would be one set of sacrifices to rejoin the worlds and bring back their loved ones. Also in regards to saving lives, that’s something the rejoinings would do in the long run anyways. Comparing how many lives are lost due to the sundering and mortal bodies dying off from illness and age, whereas the ancients lived far far longer and didn’t seem to be affected by illness, it would outweigh the loss eventually than just letting the cycle of the death caused from the sundering continue. It would be a better future.

But the world was unstable before the sundering as well. "The fabric of our star began to fray" is the second line line heard in the Amaurot dungeon and summoning Zodiark to rewrite the rules was a Hail Mary. The fact is, we don't know enough about the pre-sundered world to really speak to how much better it was. Were all the races the same? Were they all functionally immortal? What about those people alive now that were never Amaurotines and didn't feel that sense of profound loss when exposed to the star shower? What we saw was a sliver of a whole world that we're just beginning to get glimpses of so unless we get more information the ethics of the Rejoining are going to come down to one's feelings on the actions of the post sundering Ascians.

We do know that Zodiark would require additional sacrifices to bring back those who made the initial sacrifice. We know that there were Amaurotines who felt that enough had been sacrificed and to sacrifice new life was unethical. We know that Zodiark was a reprieve, not a long term solution, from the Sound. We know that the majority of those in Amaurot supported the Convocation, but you're also looking at immortals who were facing the possibility of true death for the first time.

For all we know if the rejoining were to happen than we'd be looking at the end of Amaurot all over again since Zodiark wasn't a true solution to whatever was happening. At the end of the day, we just don't have a full enough picture of what happened yet.

Originally Posted by GenBroadaxe

But the world was unstable before the sundering as well. "The fabric of our star began to fray" is the second line line heard in the Amaurot dungeon and summoning Zodiark to rewrite the rules was a Hail Mary. The fact is, we don't know enough about the pre-sundered world to really speak to how much better it was. Were all the races the same? Were they all functionally immortal? What about those people alive now that were never Amaurotines and didn't feel that sense of profound loss when exposed to the star shower? What we saw was a sliver of a whole world that we're just beginning to get glimpses of so unless we get more information the ethics of the Rejoining are going to come down to one's feelings on the actions of the post sundering Ascians.

We do know that Zodiark would require additional sacrifices to bring back those who made the initial sacrifice. We know that there were Amaurotines who felt that enough had been sacrificed and to sacrifice new life was unethical. We know that Zodiark was a reprieve, not a long term solution, from the Sound. We know that the majority of those in Amaurot supported the Convocation, but you're also looking at immortals who were facing the possibility of true death for the first time.

For all we know if the rejoining were to happen than we'd be looking at the end of Amaurot all over again since Zodiark wasn't a true solution to whatever was happening. At the end of the day, we just don't have a full enough picture of what happened yet.

If the world was invaded by something else, the Final Days isn't evidence of it being unstable - it's evidence of that thing rendering it such. For all we know it could’ve been an alien life form(which is starting to seem likely). As far as Zodiark not being a permanent solution, that’s not something we know. It’s simply something Venat surmises. He did what he was meant to do. It’s not proven whether he was a permanent solution or not afaik.

I'm not going to bother replying as it's plain we simply see completely different characters at this point, all I will say is G'raha is by no means perfect, it's why I like him, but 5.4 onwards also isn't the Exarch, it's him and his younger more dramatic self, which Beq Lugg even eludes to him still very much being just hidden under the vail of the man he's tried to become to suite the role thrust onto him.
Even as the Exarch, if you directly chose to question why he chose you, he gets very emotional, not unlike his 5.4 self, so that level of emotion is within him even before he fuses with his younger self.

All I'll address is the cave as I really don't know what to say, all he did was re-enact his first meeting with you, and regardless of your response he doesn't prolong it and drops it pretty much immediately, somehow implying this could lead to him attacking or worse the WoL is just... it honestly just feels because you don't like him anything he dose is turned up to 11. We've been forced into dinner dates, had characters all over as and straight up propositioned depending on your language choice, but G'raha apparently takes the award for "Creepy, stalker and potential sexual assault case" ...right....

As I've said before, the situation would be easily remedied by allowing our character to tell him to back off and that we want to keep things strictly professional. I've played a lot of JRPG's and WRPG's over the years and whenever there's an option to befriend or romance a character there is - more often than not - the option to choose and consent to the degree in which one pursues said relationships.

I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. There's a pretty large cast of characters already and it's a real shame that out of all the possible characters we could've pursued an intimate friendship the writers chose G'raha.

This guy:



Yuck!!!

It's fine for other people to like him, of course. Though it's clear he isn't to everybody's cup of tea and is clearly making some people feel uncomfortable. The writers felt the need to censor Haurchefant due to how...suggestive and aggressive he happens to be in the Japanese version of the game. I wouldn't have been bothered by that, personally, though I can see why it was adjusted to suit a Western market.

Hopefully we get the option to tell G'raha how one sided his obsession is, at any rate. For those who want to.

Except we don't really have any agency in this story, we get to design the appearance of our character and get some limited (that we didn't even start out with) dialogue options to try and set the tone of our WoL ranging from utterly meaningless to negligible. We are a set protagonist with a tiny amount of wiggle room, this isn't a RPG where we can alter the story, side with the bad guys, set off a nuke in the starting town, or get our whole party killed because we failed to do all the side quests. We are free to head cannon our WoL's as much as we want, but if in 5.55 we sudden marry Y'shtola, then we're all marrying Y'shtola, we don't get a choice, we're still just along for our WoL's ride like you could rename Cloud in 7, call him Sam, he was still Cloud and would act and do as Cloud would.
In the Cave scene with G'raha you actually do have an option to request he keep things professional and on track, causing him to come out, say sorry and move on, nothing else changes though and it all plays out the same, because the choices are just flavor, you can chose to not remember the meeting, indulge and play back at him, or ask him to stay on task, it all leads to the same "thank you for bringing me here" and the plot moves on. Because my WoL is the same as your WoL is the same as everyone elses outside of appearance and our own head canons.
We as players can love every Scion, or hate them all, our WoL likes them all, we can't tell G'raha to back off because our WoL doesn't want to and we're only given options that stay in line with the character they want the WoL to be.

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

Except we don't really have any agency in this story, we get to design the appearance of our character and get some limited (that we didn't even start out with) dialogue options to try and set the tone of our WoL ranging from utterly meaningless to negligible. We are a set protagonist with a tiny amount of wiggle room, this isn't a RPG where we can alter the story, side with the bad guys, set off a nuke in the starting town, or get our whole party killed because we failed to do all the side quests. We are free to head cannon our WoL's as much as we want, but if in 5.55 we sudden marry Y'shtola, then we're all marrying Y'shtola, we don't get a choice, we're still just along for our WoL's ride like you could rename Cloud in 7, call him Sam, he was still Cloud and would act and do as Cloud would.
In the Cave scene with G'raha you actually do have an option to request he keep things professional and on track, causing him to come out, say sorry and move on, nothing else changes though and it all plays out the same, because the choices are just flavor, you can chose to not remember the meeting, indulge and play back at him, or ask him to stay on task, it all leads to the same "thank you for bringing me here" and the plot moves on. Because my WoL is the same as your WoL is the same as everyone elses outside of appearance and our own head canons.
We as players can love every Scion, or hate them all, our WoL likes them all, we can't tell G'raha to back off because our WoL doesn't want to and we're only given options that stay in line with the character they want the WoL to be.

Eh, tbf the “this isn’t an rpg” excuse doesn’t really work, because there’s other mmorpg’s that do give you options like that. Unfortunately 14 isn’t like that of course but just saying, it is possible.

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Eh, tbf the “this isn’t an rpg” excuse doesn’t really work, because there’s other mmorpg’s that do give you options like that. Unfortunately 14 isn’t like that of course but just saying, it is possible.

I never said it wasn't possible, just that as you said this isn't one of them. That was my only point, some RPG's, MMO or not set you as a set protagonist, others give you the freedom to be and do as you please. 14 falls into the former with the caveat that you may chose your appearance and some level of tone or limited motivation to your character, like being more selfless or questioning what your pay is for example, but in both examples you will rush into danger for the good of the realm. Neither is wrong or right, variety is good and fine, but saying one is bad for not being the other is silly, depending on the story you want to tell you need to lock in characters the PC included into who they are, other times the point is the freedom and seeing how your choices change the narrative.
Its just not practical to expect after 10 years of being a set protagonist to suddenly shift into having choices that change the story and being able to pick and chose characters is just deliberately setting oneself up for disappointment.