Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 1)

Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

Being tempered ≠ being a murderhobo.

Ramuh reluctantly tempered his followers only when they asked him to do so, and even then, he never ordered them to kill anybody. The tempered sylphs who are hostile towards you in the sylphlands aren't attacking you because they are brainwashed and crazy; they're attacking you out of their own volition because they are scared and think you are coming to kill them.

If Hydaelyn has tempered the WoL, I can't see Hydaelyn giving the WoL any sinister orders. It'd probably be something cute along the lines of when Lelouch geassed Suzaku and ordered him to "live" or something. Hydaleyn could have also tempered the WoL to protect the WoL from being tempered by malevolent Primals who would, in fact, order the WoL to go on a murder spree, like when Ifrit tried to temper the WoL in ARR 2.0 but said "hm... I can't temper you because you already belong to another..."

I know that. I was just making a point WoL had not shown any signs of being concerned about so it never crossed their minds. You know like how people say "We never see this person do suspicious things, so we never considered investigating it"

Don't forget it is only recently they discovered Hydaelyn is a Primal and since there are no negative effects that would show anything of concern, there was never need to consider WoL being Tempered before during Shadowbringer MSQ (5.0 to 5.3) until recently due to now investigating the true purpose of Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

While my staycation has come to an end, I was only able to get to the MSQ and Weapon finale tonight.

MSQ

Rendezvous with Thancred and Urianger, who have come back from Garlemald bearing news the Imperial palace is being remodeled by tempered thralls into a supersized "tempering tower," I presume. Set out to Ishgard to rendezvous with Estinien, who we accompany to Azys Lla to untemper and release Tiamat for assistance in dealing with Lunar Bahamut. Success, we ride on Paglth'an, bitches! Kick the shit out of the Telophori (neé Garlean) forces attacking the amalj'aa, and bring down Lunar Bahamut with an assist from Tiamat and Estinien. Unfortunately Arenvald, while on recon into the Paglth'an tower with Fordola, acts rashly and gets a "Lunar Ifrit" summoned by amalj'aa held captive therein, is grievously wounded, and dragged back to Ul'dah by his compatriot. Return to the Rising Stones, Krile announces she's going to petition Sharlayan for aid, and Estinien formally joins the Scions (for the time being).

Cut to the Imperial palace; Zenos emotes for the first time since his death, showing annoyance and frustration with Fandaniel's failures. Fandaniel remains nonplussed, noting that while Tiamat's return will likely deprive them of further Lunar Bahamut summons their plans will proceed apace, then asks Zenos to finally pick a weapon from the massive array he's gathered. Zenos is still unimpressed with any of them, but surprises Fandaniel by reaching for a weapon... hidden behind a pillar. Ye gods, Yoshi-P.

Lots of character moments on Alphinaud, highlighting his relationships with Arenvald and Estinien. Estinien shows his own character well, with his practical approach and Nidhogg's impact on him shown well. Fordola returns to the stage, if only for the moment, which makes me happy (I feel she was the most underutilized character from Stormblood, probably due to the Ala Mhigan "half" of the story feeling so truncated).

So the "Final Days" towers are prisons holding "beast" tribes that temper people to Garlemald and summon "Lunar Primals" loyal to such by way of their prisoners. I'm not sure how that's supposed to help them usher in the apocalypse, but there's lots of rules being bent and so on...

Amalj'aa held captive in the tower in... things... that look a lot like the "cells" from the "Pandaemonium" artwork. I'll, uh, let you draw your conclusions from that.

Sharlayan as the capital of Endwalker confirmed?

Wait patiently for 5.55.

Sorrow of Werlyt

Overmind replaced Oversoul, substituting Alphonse's conscious mind for Zenos combat data. Fight was... OK, not quite as exciting as the previous Weapon battles though. The fact there was no big phase transition and the same song played throughout probably did it. Allie goes back to Valens to hijack the Diamond Weapon, blows up half the Castrum, and gets shut down before a tear activates Overmind. Sniff. Valens survives to the end only to be defeated in a duel with Gaius, predictably, with the latter using an evolved Terminus Est to finish him off before being crushed and thrown aside by Diamond Weapon Alphonse. Gaius leaves to help rebuild the "retaken in the chaos" Werlyt, while a memory sphere left behind by Diamond Weapon Alphonse shakes Allie out of her catatonia after the "credits" along with visions of the rest of the XIVth back during Gaius' legatus days.

Fight wasn't as cool as the previous two, but I guess it was an emotionally satisfying if predictable conclusion. Glad they finally got the Sapphire Weapon out of the water (or it sunk), disappointed they didn't try to haul back the Diamond Weapon and repair it to use in the forthcoming conflict against the Telophori. Valens' whole ambition was to seize the Imperial throne, how disappointing.

Might do the EX again for the GNB weapon, since the Resistance weapon turned out to be a lil' disappointing and the Diamond Gunblade (Zeta, was it termed? Since "Diamond [X]" was already used for the Sigmascape tier in Omega.) looks pretty cool.

I'll get to YoRHa tomorrow, when I have time to deal with the headache fights, but what I've read here gives me the impression it's more of the same from the first two tiers.

Fun fact: Bahamut and Tiamat have swapped their traditional fantasy roles in XIV, where Bahamut is typically a benefactor to mortals while Tiamat is a goddess of evil dragons. This draws back to Dungeons and Dragons, which the original Final Fantasy took a lot of inspiration from to put it lightly (it's essentially an 80s era D&D campaign with the serial numbers filed off; the bestiary, save Chaos, is lifted pretty much wholesale).

Off-topic

Fully vaccinated, yay! ... but nobody else in my D&D group is, and one of them had a COVID baby, so, uh... it does nothing for me. NOTHING!

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Okay, here's my theory with the towers (specifically the big one in Garlemald)

As Urianger pointed out, being tempered to a nation instead of a primal is something we've never seen before. And then, we learned that the towers are summoning primals. My theory is Fandaniel and Zenos are trying to, or already have, use the biggest tower in the capital to summon the concept of Garlemald itself as a primal. A primal embodying the idea of Garlemald and what it stands for, explaining how people could become tempered by a nation. And then the beams coming from the smaller towers are broadcasting its tempering to other locations beyond its immediate vicinity.

I don't know how the Lunar Primals fit in, but that's what I think is going on in the imperial capital.

that.... is something i didn't even think of and it doesn't seem completely irrational given the past with the Ascians... You'd think the Scions would have thought of that knowing what they know.

Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think it's the first hint of it, either.

There have certainly been a few moments where they talk about Garleans being taught to have a godlike reverence for the Emperor, and whether that might be the Ascians angling to summon a primal (or at least have the ability to do so if convenient).

While that's a little different to the idea of summoning the "concept of Garlemald as a nation", what better form could someone think to give such a concept than its ruler?

I would also venture to ask

What difference is there in the summoning a concept of a nation and summoning a newly created will of the planet?

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Okay, here's my theory with the towers (specifically the big one in Garlemald)

As Urianger pointed out, being tempered to a nation instead of a primal is something we've never seen before. And then, we learned that the towers are summoning primals. My theory is Fandaniel and Zenos are trying to, or already have, use the biggest tower in the capital to summon the concept of Garlemald itself as a primal. A primal embodying the idea of Garlemald and what it stands for, explaining how people could become tempered by a nation. And then the beams coming from the smaller towers are broadcasting its tempering to other locations beyond its immediate vicinity.

I don't know how the Lunar Primals fit in, but that's what I think is going on in the imperial capital.

Here's my take on that.

There's a lot we don't know about the ancient world. But what we do know is that they created life a lot, through their creation magic. To me, it seems as though the towers are doing that. The Lunar Primals are a more accurate modern day engendered creations than they are primals. I also have this pet theory that in the days of Amaurot, order within the city may have been upheld through a process akin to tempering, but rather than religious zeal, it's patriotic zeal. Magically enforced nationalism.

I would say that in the Ancients' days it was used only for severe dissidents. Can't have a civil war, if you just temper the other side, right?

It's all just speculation, obvs, but I like to think of it.