Off Topic Discussion Megathread

[SturmChurro]

Personally I just don't find it to be a fun gameplay mechanic.

I think that it could be if the feedback was better, for example if instead of hitting your opponent and hearing that sound effect you do you instead hit the armor and there was proper feedback for it.
Because it ends up just feeling frustrating and like your character is a dumbass who can't hit what's in front of them.
It's the same in Pathfinder Kingmaker too, I do love the game but I think it'd be better with that kind of feedback or proper dodging animations.

It could be fun in Morrowind but it just makes me feeling like my character is blind.
I remember this was a thing I realized when I played the first Assassins Creed game because based on what I remember at least the enemies still blocked attacks when they got hit but there was a stagger animation so it was clear they took damage.
Morrowind is obviously extremely old at this point but I still think there were ways of doing it better especially with audio.

In FFXIV we used to be able to miss attacks too but it was horrible for obvious reasons ( Morrowind was obviously not as bad, no combos and not a MMO ).
But I think it could work in singleplayer games but you rly gotta still make it feel like you're actually swinging at someone.

I don't really see this happening, and I usually play with the premade classes on top of it for added roleplay (I like how your "class" has a description - do the same in Oblivion). Are you entering fights with no fatigue left, and/or using a weapon your character isn't skilled with? I'm literally playing a base mage right now - still level one - and have had no issues whatsoever. I suppose the thing about Morrowind is that you kind of have to know what stats and effects do what, to not get too frustrated by it and have no problems. Your character isn't blind, they are just probably unskilled, and out of breath. The game is just simulating this.

[Kolsykol]

I don't really see this happening, and I usually play with the premade classes on top of it for added roleplay (I like how your "class" has a description - do the same in Oblivion). Are you entering fights with no fatigue left, and/or using a weapon your character isn't skilled with? I'm literally playing a base mage right now - still level one - and have had no issues whatsoever. I suppose the thing about Morrowind is that you kind of have to what stats and effects do what, to not get too frustrated by it and have no problems. Your character isn't blind, they are just probably unskilled, and out of breath. The game is just simulating this.

Yeah but even if you're unskilled you should still be able to make contact with the enemy.
I think that for the most part it's an issue with audio especially considering the age of the game.

I honestly dunno how to describe it, it almost sounds like you're cutting grass lol.
In DnD AC is meant to simulate a lot of different things, like weapons hitting armor, dodging, parrying etc.
I think it really helps to show that or at least indicate it some other way like with audio.

Otherwise it sorta feels like your character is just slicing the air.

[SturmChurro]

Yeah but even if you're unskilled you should still be able to make contact with the enemy.
I think that for the most part it's an issue with audio especially considering the age of the game.

I honestly dunno how to describe it, it almost sounds like you're cutting grass lol.
In DnD AC is meant to simulate a lot of different things, like weapons hitting armor, dodging, parrying etc.
I think it really helps to show that or at least indicate it some other way like with audio.

Otherwise it sorta feels like your character is just slicing the air.

Not necessarily. The game just lacks the animations. It is simulating the enemy dodging your hits. For example, I was recently playing NWN EE, and NWN2, those games would give visual feedback (dodge animations) of you or the enemy missing by having your character or the enemy literally dodge hits. Your character could still miss for a variety of factors, and I, frankly, think it's more realistic to miss from time to time. Aside from that, there are probably mods that change this for people who want it.

[Kolsykol]

Not necessarily. The game just lacks the animations. It is simulating the enemy dodging your hits. For example, I was recently playing NWN EE, and NWN2, those games would give visual feedback (dodge animations) of you or the enemy missing by having your character or the enemy literally dodge hits. Your character could still miss for a variety of factors, and I, frankly, think it's more realistic to miss from time to time. Aside from that, there are probably mods that change this for people who want it.

Animations would definitely help which was my point, I think if your character is wearing heavy armor tho there should be audio for that too.
It's just that without it the game does a poor job at communicating that visually and audibly and imo at least it makes the gameplay feel bad.

I think that when you visually actually see your weapon land on the enemy then you kinda end up expecting that to be reflected in the visuals and audio, when it's not it ends up feeling bad imo.

[SturmChurro]

Animations would definitely help which was my point, I think if your character is wearing heavy armor tho there should be audio for that too.
It's just that without it the game does a poor job at communicating that visually and audibly and imo at least it makes the gameplay feel bad.

I think that when you visually actually see your weapon land on the enemy then you kinda end up expecting that to be reflected in the visuals and audio, when it's not it ends up feeling bad imo.

It's old, and it's a Bethesda game. That about sums it up, but the mechanics are there for a good reason. Your weapon isn't landing. Your character is like a gassed amateur boxer, trying to go up against a fresh pro - they aren't going to land hits. Even in hema a lot of it is about parrying and dodging blows. A good representation of this in action, is probably Kingdom Come: Deliverance.

[Kolsykol]

It's old, and it's a Bethesda game. That about sums it up, but the mechanics are there for a good reason. Your weapon isn't landing. Your character is like a gassed amateur boxer, trying to go up against a fresh pro - they aren't going to land hits. Even in hema a lot of it is about parrying and dodging blows. A good representation of this in action, is probably Kingdom Come: Deliverance.

Yeah I am not exactly saying it's inherently a bad mechanic, just that the execution of it was bad or at least didn't age well ( imo ).
Then again I don't think it's only a matter of age, I don't like how it works in Pathfinder either.
Still love the game but I wish they made that aspect of it feel better.

There's a dodge animation but it's pretty lackluster and I think that if you're wearing heavy armor and get hit then you should hear it.
It makes sense for a Monk for example to be dodging attacks all the time when not getting hit, but if you're a Knight in full plate then your armor should be doing the heavy lifting there in terms of animation and audio.

Edit: Look at around 1:30 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLH0fl3lv_o
I think that's a pretty good way of going about it.
Bit too complex for Morrowind perhaps but just one example.
In Morrowind if someone was wearing heavy armor for example they could have metal on metal sound effects and if not have a small dodge animation or at least make it sound a bit more like dodging.

[SturmChurro]

Yeah I am not exactly saying it's inherently a bad mechanic, just that the execution of it was bad or at least didn't age well ( imo ).
Then again I don't think it's only a matter of age, I don't like how it works in Pathfinder either.
Still love the game but I wish they made that aspect of it feel better.

There's a dodge animation but it's pretty lackluster and I think that if you're wearing heavy armor and get hit then you should hear it.
It makes sense for a Monk for example to be dodging attacks all the time when not getting hit, but if you're a Knight in full plate then your armor should be doing the heavy lifting there in terms of animation and audio.

Edit: Look at around 1:30 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLH0fl3lv_o
I think that's a pretty good way of going about it.
Bit too complex for Morrowind perhaps but just one example.
In Morrowind if someone was wearing heavy armor for example they could have metal on metal sound effects and if not have a small dodge animation or at least make it sound a bit more like dodging.

Yeah, and like I said, there are probably mods that change this for people who want it. With a quick google search I have already found two mods that completely address these issues (both 'modernized' combat AND audio). One of the great things about the extensive modding community of ES games. Don't mod FFXIV though people, this isn't an endorsement of that!

Example: https://youtu.be/nEX9zBOAn-A

Anyway, I am too wary of the moderation here to keep continuing. This may be the off-topic thread, but I always try to relate what I post to FFXIV.