Off Topic Discussion Megathread

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

I've come to believe that any successful MMO is very much a matter of needing to be in the right place in the right time. I guess it's the lightning in the bottle effect.

I also think that any MMO that doesn't already have a lot of nostalgia to lean upon is going to struggle immensely. I doubt it's a coincidence that the most prominent MMO's I can think of at the moment are FFXIV, GW2, ESO and WoW.

FFXIV naturally has a lot of Final Fantasy titles to send a nod towards. Guild Wars 2 is the sequel to Guild Wars, Elder Scrolls Online references the single player games and shows regions we never got to explore within those same titles. As for WoW...its golden years are very much based around the Warcraft games.

There's players who have never touched the games that inspired those MMO's, of course, but I think the number who stick around due to wanting to see references is not an insignificant amount.

I'd love to see more healthy competition where the MMO market is concerned. Yet any upcoming MMO is going to struggle, I fear, unless it truly brings something ground breaking to the table and doesn't skimp on every aspect of the game. So it needs a good story, an immersive game world, an excellent soundtrack, decent character customisation and above all else it needs to not have any major flaws during the launch period.

Not to mention a team that genuinely cares about their work and makes effort to continue supporting their game as best they can.

I know it was a problem in many Korean MMOs where they'd hit almost everything else right, but the developers or producers (or both) just... stopped caring after launch, and only focused on milking players with their p2w cash shops. TERA springs to mind in that regard, as I distinctly remember leaving the game due to feeling like Bluehole just stopped caring about their product beyond how much money they could get out of it.

[ItMe]

What's fascinating to me is how this got past that open beta they did. Surely someone should have caught the issues with client-side checks back then?

That's true. I'm amazed that got past any amount of testing, let alone the extensive testing New World had.
And yet... that's nothing compared to the newest kerfuffle: anything entered in chat is treated like code.
Yes, you can use the chat box to inject custom code straight into the game.
So far people have mainly been using it to create huge images that fill other players screens, blinding them during PVP, and they're also writing code to make text that simply mousing over will cause your game to crash. But that's just so far. As I understand it this was discovered, like, today. While it sounds like the chat box only gives you enough room to write a few lines of code, my god that is a volatile discovery.

[Theodric]

Not to mention a team that genuinely cares about their work and makes effort to continue supporting their game as best they can.

I know it was a problem in many Korean MMOs where they'd hit almost everything else right, but the developers or producers (or both) just... stopped caring after launch, and only focused on milking players with their p2w cash shops. TERA springs to mind in that regard, as I distinctly remember leaving the game due to feeling like Bluehole just stopped caring about their product beyond how much money they could get out of it.

Yeah, I could never get into Korean MMO's. They tend to look very impressive and have great character customisation...but then they just end up being very grindy and have very predatory cash shops. I guess the latter is why I only use ESO as a side MMO. There's just too much cool stuff that is only temporarily available where its cash shop is concerned.

[Vyrerus]

Hammerfell was cut loose by the Empire and they drove the Thalmor out, so can Skyrim. Furthermore, the Thalmor would have to cross either Hammerfell or Cyrodiil in order to reach Skyrim. From which they then would have to maintain supply line whilst fighting against a nation that has a homefield advantage. It would be a quagmire for the Thalmor. Also, as an avid individualist I will always stand by a nation that wants self governance from a failed foreign power. Plus Dragonborn wild card.

Hammerfell only held out against the Aldmeri Dominion because the Empire made the decision to allow the Imperial troops fighting for Hammerfell to be considered, "Invalid." This cut them loose without punishment, while maintaining the treaty with the Thalmor, which gave Hammerfell the necessary manpower to continue resisting. In the end, the Aldmeri withdrew, but over half of Hammerfell is in ruins. A pyrrhic victory under the auspices of the Empire. You're welcome.

The only way an Ulfric lead Skyrim is having any chance against the Aldmeri is if they ally with Hammerfell or another nation, so that they can make up for their deficiencies. They've got no navy. No real powerful mages. They've got the Thu'um, but not everybody's got the Thu'um.

Suppose Ulfric does win in Skyrim. What happens to the rest of what's left of the Empire? It does crumble, and then the Aldmeri take Cyrodil again. The only real wild card preventing this is what the dragons are doing.

I'm actually kind of jonesing for Elder Scrolls 6 in this regard, because I would very much like to know where they will go canonically with the Skyrim Civil War. Assuming we don't get like... some tale from the 1st Era or something instead of moving on to the 5th era or later in the 4th. I'd like to know if Paarthurnax actually succeeds in getting some benevolent dragon society going. Whether or not the Dragonborn stayed engaged with the political strife/war.

It'd also be cool if it was like, The Elder Scrolls VI: Outcast People, and was centered around Orsinium or something or other. Orcs ftw, baby!

[Caurcas]

Honestly, I feel the civil war plot line should've been the main quest line instead of the sort of hacky way it was wrote. It's sparked far more discussion than the dragon quest line ever did. I would also be fine with Morrowind 2: traditional dunmer-boogaloo.

[Vyrerus]

Honestly, I feel the civil war plot line should've been the main quest line instead of the sort of hacky way it was wrote. It's sparked far more discussion than the dragon quest line ever did. I would also be fine with Morrowind 2: traditional dunmer-boogaloo.

Yeah... the main questline to Skyrim is interesting... once. The civil war plot is something we can actually get invested in though, because it's not a prophesized outcome, and it comes down to personal belief and such.

Plus, like, Alduin didn't fight any differently than any other dragons really. By the time you get to him, he doesn't really seem special. Also Delphine and Esbern can go piss up a rope. I ain't killin' Paarthurnax.

I wouldn't mind another jaunt through Morrowind, but I'd really like to see other provinces too. Elsweyr... Black Marsh. Something something just let me traipse across all of Tamriel in a single player game.

[MilkieTea]

You ever see the news on mmorpgs like New World, or any of the other new ones, and are like "wow! dodged a bullet".

Think I'll just stick to what I know.

I'm convinced Amazon looked at the mess that was XIV's 1.0 launch and the subsequent success brought by pulling themselves together and actually caring and said "Let's replicate that... it'll get us money!" Without realizing that the only reason people stuck around was because they had trust in the devs and the devs had WAY too much to lose. Amazon has nothing to lose if NW doesn't succeed. "Meh... a few hundred million gone down the drain. Whatevs, we're a trillion dollar company it doesn't matter to us."

[_Pigzig]

Without realizing that the only reason people stuck around was because they had trust in the devs and the devs had WAY too much to lose. "

I don't think anyone trusted the devs actually, except some fanboys.
Most people here didn't buy 1.0 at all and the Final Fantasy series was long in decline.

The reason I bought 2.0 is it looked way better right from initial screenshots. It was obvious they made a totally different game. I was sold on the game because of how Dragoon looked. Here are some early screenshots for fun.



And there was a lot more positive buzz. You couldn't even find the game in Japan on launch.

[MilkieTea]

I don't think anyone trusted the devs actually, except some fanboys.
Most people here didn't buy 1.0 at all and the Final Fantasy series was long in decline.

The reason I bought 2.0 is it looked way better right from initial screenshots. It was obvious they made a totally different game. I was sold on the game because of how Dragoon looked. Here are some early screenshots for fun.



And there was a lot more positive buzz. You couldn't even find the game in Japan on launch.

There wouldn't have been a core playerbase without trust in the devs, though. My friend who's been playing since 1.0 Launch has shared with me some interesting things, such as PDFs of the timelines they shared with their playerbase etc etc.

There was a loss of trust but some of that had been regained from the devs showing that they honestly wanted the game to at least *work*. There's absolutely none of that with NW. No openness, no trust at all. It's a dumpsterfire that looks pretty (like 1.0) without the new team involved to toss the dumpsterfire out and make a garden instead.

[_Pigzig]

There wouldn't have been a core playerbase without trust in the devs, though. My friend who's been playing since 1.0 Launch has shared with me some interesting things, such as PDFs of the timelines they shared with their playerbase etc etc.

There was a loss of trust but some of that had been regained from the devs showing that they honestly wanted the game to at least *work*. There's absolutely none of that with NW. No openness, no trust at all. It's a dumpsterfire that looks pretty (like 1.0) without the new team involved to toss the dumpsterfire out and make a garden instead.

Yeah but I think most people who play now never knew about any of this. 2.0 was successful because they made a different game and it was good. All I knew about 1.0 was what youtubers and people who ripped it to shreds said. It was one of those games people loved to hate.
What Square did do well though was communicate how different 2.0 was going to be. They even made A Realm Reborn the prominent title on the box, Final Fantasy was only underneath. This trend actually continued. You see ENDWALKER and then FFXIV online underneath.
A lot of the playerbase now aren't even Final Fantasy fans, a lot of people I've talked to don't know the Crystal Tower is a big FF3 reference. The success just seems to be plain old buzz and word of mouth about the game.