Off Topic Discussion Megathread

[Midareyukki]

Merlin was a druid.

Some early texts on druids give them a very bad undeserved rep. (Druids were the educated elite of their day, the brehon; the village leader, the wise old man, etc)

Kind of.

Merlin as a character was always the son of an Incubus. This is because his first ever appearance on the Matter of Britain was in the 12th Century by Geoffrey of Monmouth, a Welsh cleric. What people theorize Merlin is, what Geoffrey did to make Merlin, was take up several different other figures in local folklore and previous versions of the Matter of Britain, and fuse them together to create Merlin. Then, he used the demon father justification to make it more "acceptable" for there to be a good-moralled magic wielder serving King Arthur.

The figures Geoffrey is theorized to have combined are:
- Emrys Wledig, a Welsh character anglicized as Ambrose Aurelian. He's a war leader who won a battle against the Anglo-Saxons. Emrys was originally the uncle of King Arthur, brother to Uther by Nennius in the 9th century. But then Geoffrey rewrote this name as being Merlin under a disguise to trick Vortigern.
- Myrddin the Wild, a Bard living in the Caledonian Forest of Scotland, who gave Merlin his name. In fact, Geoffrey wrote another book called "The Prophecies of Merlin", where he describes Myrddin's ramblings while under dementia to be Merlin making prophecies under a magical state.

Now, Bards were a version of Druids in Celtic communities, specifically someone whose job was to pass on traditions and stories orally, often through song. They shared this with Druids and Ovates. So you can consider that Merlin is indeed meant to be depicted as a druid, because he's based on Myrddin and his bardic ramblings. However, the term has since been really muddied by pop culture, and even by the 12th century, druidry had been pretty much dead for about 3 centuries. Nennius had already written additions to the Matter of Britain with a load of Christian ideas and motifs, so what we ended up with was a stereotype.

While Merlin is certainly meant to come across as an old-timey druid, the representation is a bit wonky and fantastical. And to justify the use of magic and having a pagan be portrayed as a good guy, they had to give him a reason for his heretical powers while also making it plausible as to why he'd help on such a christian-centric quest. So, Merlin was technically a druid? But he still isn't reeeally one, since to explain away his abilities, rather than admitting "he's a Celtic druid, which is why he can wield magic" (even if in their already fantastic idea of what a druid was), they still just said "nah, he's the son of a demon, the druid bit is just a byproduct".

Also

Actually Mordred existed with one of the few historical blivits along with Arthur in that they both died at Camlann. His romanticization into what he is in the legends and stuff by the guy from 1130 is all made up, but he's actually been there all along in some capacity

Yeah, Mordred existed in a poem with one line that says he and Arthur died at Camlann as "Medraut". But he's not the son of Arthur. We literally have no idea who Medraut is, or why he died at Camlann, or even if Arthur killed thim (and vice-versa)...
We just know nothing of Medraut. At all. He could have been some bloke from god knows where, just sprouted off the earth and we'd be none the wiser.

We know the name is super similar to Mordred's and their story end the same way. Past that, the whole character of Mordred really only showed up with Geoffrey... again >_>;... when he said Mordredus was Arthur's Nephew and betrayed him. There is a story of Arthur having to kill his son Amhar, not Mordred, but it has no context and it comes from Historia Brittonum, a 9th century story that starts with surviving Trojans settling Britain. So uhm. Yeah.

Mordred does have a precursor, but there wasn't any foothold other than "some dude called Mordred who died at Camlann with Arthur". And then they dog piled onto that. So if Mordred did exist, he was so so so so so minor the authors just didn't even bother giving him any more references than "he ded".

[Vyrerus]

the authors just didn't even bother giving him any more references than "he ded".

I mean, most all of the stuff around Arthur himself is that way too. There's just more people willing to go out on a limb about stuff surrounding Arthur since he's the pivotal figure in the legend.

Also OG Arthur sounds hella like the WoL. Cutting witches in half with daggers and slaying giants with Rhongomiant. Killing 960 men singlehandedly...

[Kalania]

Kind of.

Merlin as a character was always the son of an Incubus. This is because his first ever appearance on the Matter of Britain was in the 12th Century by Geoffrey of Monmouth, a Welsh cleric. What people theorize Merlin is, what Geoffrey did to make Merlin, was take up several different other figures in local folklore and previous versions of the Matter of Britain, and fuse them together to create Merlin. Then, he used the demon father justification to make it more "acceptable" for there to be a good-moralled magic wielder serving King Arthur.

The figures Geoffrey is theorized to have combined are:
- Emrys Wledig, a Welsh character anglicized as Ambrose Aurelian. He's a war leader who won a battle against the Anglo-Saxons. Emrys was originally the uncle of King Arthur, brother to Uther by Nennius in the 9th century. But then Geoffrey rewrote this name as being Merlin under a disguise to trick Vortigern.
- Myrddin the Wild, a Bard living in the Caledonian Forest of Scotland, who gave Merlin his name. In fact, Geoffrey wrote another book called "The Prophecies of Merlin", where he describes Myrddin's ramblings while under dementia to be Merlin making prophecies under a magical state.

Now, Bards were a version of Druids in Celtic communities, specifically someone whose job was to pass on traditions and stories orally, often through song. They shared this with Druids and Ovates. So you can consider that Merlin is indeed meant to be depicted as a druid, because he's based on Myrddin and his bardic ramblings. However, the term has since been really muddied by pop culture, and even by the 12th century, druidry had been pretty much dead for about 3 centuries. Nennius had already written additions to the Matter of Britain with a load of Christian ideas and motifs, so what we ended up with was a stereotype.

While Merlin is certainly meant to come across as an old-timey druid, the representation is a bit wonky and fantastical. And to justify the use of magic and having a pagan be portrayed as a good guy, they had to give him a reason for his heretical powers while also making it plausible as to why he'd help on such a christian-centric quest. So, Merlin was technically a druid? But he still isn't reeeally one, since to explain away his abilities, rather than admitting "he's a Celtic druid, which is why he can wield magic" (even if in their already fantastic idea of what a druid was), they still just said "nah, he's the son of a demon, the druid bit is just a byproduct".

.

Right, I was thinking of Myrddin.

[RyuDragnier]

Arthurian myth is a trip and a half. It's no wonder why the fantastical parts of it are downplayed...and questionable why Guinevere isn't portrayed like the villainous she is (since she sorta caused everything leading to the Round Table's downfall).

[Renalt]

YOOOO! Division 2 is finally on Steam! I'm so stoked and I'm downloading it right now. I'm going to murder SOOOO many people!

. . .

Don't take that out of context.

[TheMightyMollusk]

It's only murder if you get caught, otherwise it's just a sparkling missing persons case.

[SassyAssassin]

I can already see the next Netflix documentary about a man in g string and eye patch going around wreaking havoc.

[NanaWiloh]

Starting a new job next Friday and my phone suffered a terrible accident tonight that killed it completely!!! rofl...I would share what happen but it will just make people ask HOW and I dont know how rofl...

[Rannie]

Starting a new job next Friday and my phone suffered a terrible accident tonight that killed it completely!!! rofl...I would share what happen but it will just make people ask HOW and I dont know how rofl...

Atleast you didn't miss your pocket and end up kicking it down the drain of the Walgreens Photo Lab like my brother did one time..

[Vyrerus]

Moose shared this band with me the other day. They're quite a treat.

Divided by RA

This wait's too long
I don't wanna have to see you crawling
You falling down
While I just stand around
You vaulted out
So you didn't have to hold my sorrow
My sorrow now
So can you show me how?


I find a stone that I can carry
Carry all the way
And all alone I make the journey
Cuz I just can't stay
If I decide that I am broken
Will I lose my past?
If I decide it's time to end it
Will it break too fast?

And you might be Divided
By the things that you know
All the subtle surprises
By the devil below
And you might be Divided
By the war in your mind
But you can't keep on hidin'
From the world you designed
There's no words you can say
To wish it away (Ay)
Wish it away


Is it on top of me?
All of this latency
I don't wanna talk about it
I don't wanna set it free


Cuz the excuses that are in my head
Make it safe to avoid it all
Is it better just to play it dead
Then take the psychosocial Adderall
How am I supposed to choose
Between the truths that I never knew
Every time that I turn away
I deny what I put you through
You might also like
Nobody Loves You

Enough

Do You Call My Name


And you might be Divided
By the things that you know
All the subtle surprises
By the devil below
And you might be Divided
By the war in your mind
But you can't keep on hidin'
From the world you designed
There's no words you can say


Walk past the outside line
And hold until you find
A code that you can break
A breath that you can take
Disrupt the simple mind
Throw out the thoughts that bind
Just wait until they're gone
So they don't tell you you're wrong again
Running so long for them
It's not a race you'll win
Running so long again
All of your life
And it's there to be found

And you might be Divided
By the things that you know
All the subtle surprises
By the devil below
And you might be Divided
By the war in your mind
But you can't keep on hidin'
From the world you designed
There's no words you can say
To wish it away