Mentor system needs an overhaul

[ZedxKayn]

Never touched a single extreme content (nor do I plan to), but in my experience seeing mechanics in a video and reacting to them in-person in the actual fights are not always compatible. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't at all. But I guess it helps so far as that someone is not completely surprised or taken "off-guard" by new mechanics.

Because of how "slow" the game is in that type of content (or in general, with the exception of stuff like UWU gaols), reading or watching a guide is extremely useful because people definitely have the time to remember what they memorized from a guide when the mechanic plays out and there is little to no mechanics that should take them off guard if they come prepared.


I agree with players who think EX should not be in mentor roulette. Doing harder content takes a specific mindset a lot of sprouts do not have (yet?) and it will often end up as a waste of time for everyone involved.
It's not a "mentors being incompetent" problem, it's a "game not properly warning what the content entails while giving quests encouraging the use of DF for it" problem, which is why when you get an EX trial in roulette, it's almost always an ARR one.

[Lanadra]

I’m still of the opinion that mentors should have current content Extremes both unlocked and cleared. We’re expected to have previous expansion’s completed - why not this one?

The problem I have with your belief is that you equate 'these extremes are required for mentor roulette... so you shouldn't be allowed mentor unless you border on being a hardcore raider and can do current extremes'. I say again, these extremes are required only for the roulette and only because they're *in* it, which in itself already makes no sense because the general advise has always been 'don't pug extremes or above'.

You want to turn something that people generally recommend against, doing extremes through duty finder.. and make it a mentor requirement. And if you're going to argue 'off course I didn't mean do current extremes through DF' then your point has even less to do with it making sense for the mentor system. No, being able to clear current extremes has nothing to do with helping new players.

[HyoMinPark]

The problem I have with your belief is that you equate 'these extremes are required for mentor roulette... so you shouldn't be allowed mentor unless you border on being a hardcore raider and can do current extremes'. I say again, these extremes are required only for the roulette and only because they're *in* it, which in itself already makes no sense because the general advise has always been 'don't pug extremes or above'.

You want to turn something that people generally recommend against, doing extremes through duty finder.. and make it a mentor requirement. And if you're going to argue 'off course I didn't mean do current extremes through DF' then your point has even less to do with it making sense for the mentor system. No, being able to clear current extremes has nothing to do with helping new players.

Pugging Extremes is fine. Even Savage can be done with PUGs. That’s what most PF groups for Extremes and Savages are. However, Duty Finder has a much different mentality than Party Finder when it comes to higher end content. I outlined above the kinds of mentalities you see in sprouts, non-sprouts, and mentors alike in Mentor Roulette EXs. Most don’t have the right one for doing Extremes in a DF setting. PF is a bit of a different matter.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

The problem I have with your belief is that you equate 'these extremes are required for mentor roulette... so you shouldn't be allowed mentor unless you border on being a hardcore raider and can do current extremes'. I say again, these extremes are required only for the roulette and only because they're *in* it, which in itself already makes no sense because the general advise has always been 'don't pug extremes or above'.

You want to turn something that people generally recommend against, doing extremes through duty finder.. and make it a mentor requirement. And if you're going to argue 'off course I didn't mean do current extremes through DF' then your point has even less to do with it making sense for the mentor system. No, being able to clear current extremes has nothing to do with helping new players.

Lol. That's not my point at all but I don't blame you for running head long into that conclusion.

My actual point is to increase the overall quality of mentors you receive by getting rid of players who can't even clear a slight step above Normal content in difficulty.

The amount of mentors who are absolutely against even attempting to clear this expansion's versions of Extreme is mind-boggling. But I keep seeing it.

Also. What's up with the belief you're only there to help new players? Are asking mentors for advice strictly exclusive to sprouts? Am I not allowed to ask ya'll questions about lvl 80 content, raiding, rotations, pots, foods and so on?

[Deceptus]

My actual point is to increase the overall quality of mentors you receive by getting rid of players who can't even clear a slight step above Normal content in difficulty.

You need to define what you think normal content difficulty is.

Dungeons? Normal 8 Man raids? 24 man raids? Eureka Raids?

Because I can assure you, I see a LOT of failure from the FFXIV userbase in all of that content which tells me they are nowhere near ready for EX.

There is a pretty sizable difference between Dungeons and EX's. Usually, in current EX content, a few deaths and it's a wipe due to enrage. SE has loosened those enrages over the years because the overall playerbase is (IMHO) poor.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

You need to define what you think normal content difficulty is.

Dungeons? Normal 8 Man raids? 24 man raids? Eureka Raids?

Because I can assure you, I see a LOT of failure from the FFXIV userbase in all of that content which tells me they are nowhere near ready for EX.

There is a pretty sizable difference between Dungeons and EX's. Usually, in current EX content, a few deaths and it's a wipe due to enrage. SE has loosened those enrages over the years because the overall playerbase is (IMHO) poor.

Anything that doesn't have a little label beside the name. What you just described? Is normal content.

When they have the label Extreme, Savage, Ultimate? That's not normal. With the exclusion of Baldesion Arsenal.

And this isn't about the majority of the userbase. This is about mentors. The topic of discussion.

Edit: Also. ARR [ Hard ] is considered Normal content.

[Lanadra]

Lol. That's not my point at all but I don't blame you for running head long into that conclusion.

My actual point is to increase the overall quality of mentors you receive by getting rid of players who can't even clear a slight step above Normal content in difficulty.

The amount of mentors who are absolutely against even attempting to clear this expansion's versions of Extreme is mind-boggling. But I keep seeing it.

Also. What's up with the belief you're only there to help new players? Are asking mentors for advice strictly exclusive to sprouts? Am I not allowed to ask ya'll questions about lvl 80 content, raiding, rotations, pots, foods and so on?

Because that's the literal point of the system..? To help new adventurers get a grasp of the game and answer questions they might have. Did you miss that thing called 'novice network'? With the emphasis on the word 'novice'. Look, I get your point, you want it to be something that it is not, you want it to encompass everything and that is also why you think mentors should be able to clear everything up to and including current Extremes.. but that is not the point of the system. That is why the requirements are not what you want them to be, because that wasn't the intent.

Doesn't mean they couldn't expand and more importantly improve the system. You can have mentors whose purpose it is to aid new adventurers, as we do now. You can also have.. I dunno, endgame mentors? Whose specific purpose it is to help and if they so desire teach the ins and outs of the various endgame contents.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

Because that's the literal point of the system..? To help new adventurers get a grasp of the game and answer questions they might have. Did you miss that thing called 'novice network'? With the emphasis on the word 'novice'. Look, I get your point, you want it to be something that it is not, you want it to encompass everything and that is also why you think mentors should be able to clear everything up to and including current Extremes.. but that is not the point of the system. That is why the requirements are not what you want them to be, because that wasn't the intent.

Doesn't mean they couldn't expand and more importantly improve the system. You can have mentors whose purpose it is to aid new adventurers, as we do now. You can also have.. I dunno, endgame mentors? Whose specific purpose it is to help and if they so desire teach the ins and outs of the various endgame contents.

Last I check you can be a novice at raiding and ask for help involving it. You can be a novice at nearly everything in this game, to be perfectly frank, from Eureka to DR to Savage and Ultimate content. And I personally think that mentors should at least be able to offer some semblance of insight on semi-difficult content.

Additionally, your argument doesn't change the fact that there is Extreme content in Mentor Roulette at the moment. Which is something you're expected to do synced if you happen to get it.

If you can't handle Extreme content synced than you shouldn't be a mentor in the first place.

[ItMe]

IMHO Extremes have no business being in Mentor Content. That level of play requires a lot more coordination and prep than most people are actually prepared for.

Complex mechanics can't easily be explained via the chat log, when instead you could simply watch a quick video.

Do you mean just current extremes (as the post you're replying to was mentioning current content)?
Or do you mean stuff like ARR EXes have no business being mentor content?

[HyoMinPark]

Do you mean just current extremes (as the post you're replying to was mentioning current content)?
Or do you mean stuff like ARR EXes have no business being mentor content?

I think they mean both. And I kind of have to agree.

This game allows players to just smash their faces on their keyboards for so much content that the second anything challenging appears, they completely fall apart. A lot of them also don’t want to listen to the directions and explanations mentors try to give them. As someone who has done ARR and HW extremes via Mentor Roulette, even getting the new players to do simple things like stacking Nidhogg’s Ahk Morn marker or not pointing Ravana’s OT cleave towards the entire party is extremely difficult. People seem to also carry around this mentality of “oh, it’s old content so I can just throw my keyboard against the wall and still clear”. Which, I mean, the game helps perpetuate. However, that doesn’t always fly. Old extremes certainly aren’t what they were at release (the easy ones and the harder ones), but they still require a bit more thought than I think some players are willing to give them. Especially sprouts that seem to think they’re probably just another “Hard” Mode.