Finished HW (except some sidequests). Had an epiphany about Estinien.

[Tensaihime]

I did all the DRK quests ARR would allow as soon as they opened up, so I already knew he’d lost his hometown and family to Nidhogg and was very angry about it. I didn’t think any more about it, other than when I’d have to fight him again, because I was positive that was coming.

Then I finished that part of the game. Urianger and Yugiri weren’t going to stay with me, and Tataru, Twelve bless her, couldn’t fight her way out of a paper bag. I was sure everybody else was dead (when I slacked off on playing, somebody I know in real life eventually went “oh FFS” and showed me some of the squad in a Shadowbringers trailer). I was waiting for Haurchefant to mistreat my WoL, because his offer HAD to have a catch, and Alphinaud was dead to me... actually, to this day I’m still waiting for him to apologize to me for getting me into that, or treat me like I have my own feelings instead of as an extension of him. Anyway, I felt alone. And homeless, helpless, sad... and angry. And like revenge was the only thing I had left. I couldn’t figure out how to get at the Ascians all by my lonesome, and I couldn’t figure out how I would get into Ul’dah and break the necks of everybody who backstabbed me, but hey, I had decided earlier that I was going to smite some dragons to spite Midgardsormr, and now I had nothing else to do.

Fast forward some, I learn the truth about the dragons and don’t want to kill them any more. I finally do fight Nidhogg and find less schadenfreude in it than I thought I would, even though the Eye chose me and I thought my whole existence revolved around ending him. Life does not end up being just the blood-soaked hell I expected first going into the city. I don’t have to think of only revenge (I’m still coming for van Hydrus and the other Ascians though), I have friends. Or, as a character I love from another story I love puts it:

Estinien... is me! His anger is my anger!

And his chilling out is my chilling out, and his snark is my snark... man, the snark, he had made me nervous at first, but I really started to like him during the road trip Alphinaud forced us on. Man said so many things I wished I could say.

And from what he says in the infirmary... that means Nidhogg might have been me too. I sat quietly for a moment or two when I thought about that.

I don’t know if the devs did that on purpose or I just got too emotionally invested in this game, but I thought it was brilliant.

[Arielen]

Fast forward some, I learn the truth about the dragons and don’t want to kill them any more. I finally do fight Nidhogg and find less schadenfreude in it than I thought I would, even though the Eye chose me and I thought my whole existence revolved around ending him.

It's somewhat poorly explained that Nidhogg deliberately drew out the war in order to make people suffer (tens of thousand of dragons AND people died) because he wanted revenge for what had happened, and most recently decided that he wanted to exterminate all life that didn't rally behind his banner: including his own offspring.

I don't know if there was some sort of mix-up with all the different writers, but Nidhogg was so, so much worse than MSQ alone suggested he was.

[Frizze]

Yeah, i think its in maybe one of the Hraesvelgr scenes. The dragon(Nidhogg) knows that he can go in and end ishgard, and he chooses not to. He doesnt want to merely kill those who betrayed him, he wants to make their descendants suffer an eternity of war. When his no longer living spirit takes over Estinien, then and only then does he decide that its time for the city to fall and all of Ishgard to die. And as you saw in the game, it was a fairly close thing.

[Tensaihime]

Yeah, i think its in maybe one of the Hraesvelgr scenes. The dragon(Nidhogg) knows that he can go in and end ishgard, and he chooses not to. He doesnt want to merely kill those who betrayed him, he wants to make their descendants suffer an eternity of war. When his no longer living spirit takes over Estinien, then and only then does he decide that its time for the city to fall and all of Ishgard to die. And as you saw in the game, it was a fairly close thing.

I looked through the notes I took, and among all the raging and in-jokes and memes I DO have a conversation that ends with us being warned about how Nidhogg plans to torment the city forever. Now I was in a very bad place following 2.55, but not THAT bad (although I will admit campfire schmampfire, Lolorito having thirty years scared off his lifespan is MY idea of peak Heavensward). So when I typed “Nidhogg might have been me too” I should have just pasted this from my notes:

But Estinien, who looks like some cool (albeit sleep-deprived) 1980s sword-and-sorcery guy, shows he’s not dead by telling Alph to quit crying. He’s just resting. And he’s been thinking: when Nidhogg hijacked his body, he felt a millennium’s worth of sadness and hate. When Estinien’s hometown burned and his family died, he felt the same way, and if he hadn’t had friends and teachers on his side he would have turned out exactly like his enemy.

I probably shouldn’t have let excitement get in the way of efficiency when I made this post.

[Arielen]

then and only then does he decide that its time for the city to fall and all of Ishgard to die.

He didn't intend to stop at Ishgard: that was just the first on the victim list. That'd be why I never understood people simping so hard for that narrative. Even the heretic faction is comprised primarily of violent criminals, many of whom aren't even Ishgardian, which is why they went haywire at the Steps of Faith.