DPS who pull mobs

[Arrius]

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

Enemy mob attacks, especially crits, can interrupt spellcasting. I think that's based on how much you lose on the attack. 15-20% of your max HP on a single strike/action can interrupt casting.
Also, telegraphs can force you to move while having the other mobs stuck on you, otherwise you risk getting interrupted by a unlucky crit.
And then there are status effects. Rare as they are, stun and paralyze can ruin your day.

[ItMe]

because its how I felt back when I was tanking and dealing with DPS pulling MOBs in HW. It was relevant to the topic.

I don't follow. Maybe I just don't understand this thread.
How are 3.x experiences and philosophies you no longer live by more topically relevant than your 5.x ones?

Enemy mob attacks, especially crits, can interrupt spellcasting.

Really? I thought enemies weren't able to crit as of this expac.

[Zfz]

Really? I thought enemies weren't able to crit as of this expac.

Don't know about crits but at least last night in World of Darkness, on my BLM, my cast was interrupted by the eyeball add that spawn in the eyeball boss fight. Yeah the two tanks who were supposed to tank them were doing their super dps on the boss. Oh and the flower thingy add on the doggo fight as well. And yeah again the tanks were doing their super DPS on the doggo...wtf was wrong with those tanks seriously.

So crit or not, mob damage can still interrupt player cast.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I don't follow. Maybe I just don't understand this thread.
How are 3.x experiences and philosophies you no longer live by more topically relevant than your 5.x ones?

They arn't, I just went off on a tangent, and I was replying to somebody else. And I did so without mentioning beforehand that everything I was saying was when I was newer back in HW. Because I failed to mention that, I gave people the idea that I tank today with the same issues and mentality.
Doesn't help that I kept feeding it like I was back in HW. Guess it was therapeutic in a weird way to get my frustrations out XD

[Ftail]

I agree with you and the people here it's toxic behavior from the tank to let a DPS die because they pulled mobs. At the same time, it's not a reportable offense if the tank keeps his mouth shut while doing it. How would the GM discern a tank letting someone die from spite from tanks letting someone die from incompetency if there are no chat logs to show he was being malicious.

If GMs have access to the battle log, they could possibly see the tank stopping his use of AOE, dropping his stance, and such.

Maybe the tank accidently dragged and dropped his AOE spell off his bar or switched his bar. Maybe dropping his stance was a misclick. The fact a GM has to search for an entire dungeons battle logs and deduce what happened is absolutely overwhelming. The reason why GM's don't tell people the results and that they are only looking into it is to make players feel satisfied it's getting GM attention. There's a reason vote kicking and leaving a dungeon is an option. GM's are not omnipotent and going to be able deduce small things like a tank purposely letting a DPS die from not hitting his AOE combo based off of combat logs. It's just not realistic, when they are probably understaffed and underpaid and need to get through tons of more reports so they are going to only look for obvious indicators.

In a perfect world those tanks would be punished, I honestly wish they were, I just don't see how that's at all a realistic expectation.

[ZedxKayn]

Maybe the tank accidently dragged and dropped his AOE spell off his bar or switched his bar. Maybe dropping his stance was a misclick. The fact a GM has to search for an entire dungeons battle logs and deduce what happened is absolutely overwhelming. The reason why GM's don't tell people the results and that they are only looking into it is to make players feel satisfied it's getting GM attention. There's a reason vote kicking and leaving a dungeon is an option. GM's are not omnipotent and going to be able deduce small things like a tank purposely letting a DPS die from not hitting his AOE combo based off of combat logs. It's just not realistic, when they are probably understaffed and underpaid and need to get through tons of more reports so they are going to only look for obvious indicators.

In a perfect world those tanks would be punished, I honestly wish they were, I just don't see how that's at all a realistic expectation.

CTRL+F homie, CTRL+F. No one knows what kind of tools GMs have to but if malicious rescueing is reportable and taken seriously no reason they can't find something like the drop of a tank stance followed by a death across the whole dungeon or the ceasing of AOEs in a given time frame.

Also tbh how would someone remove their AOE combo and not notice from the very beginning? If it's really a hotbar issue, that wouldn't prevent them from trying to grab aggro off people with ranged and voke.

[Ftail]

CTRL+F homie, CTRL+F. No one knows what kind of tools GMs have to but if malicious rescueing is reportable and taken seriously no reason they can't find something like the drop of a tank stance followed by a death across the whole dungeon or the ceasing of AOEs in a given time frame.

Also tbh how would someone remove their AOE combo and not notice from the very beginning? If it's really a hotbar issue, that wouldn't prevent them from trying to grab aggro off people with ranged and voke.

I've had a healer friend do way worse in a dungeon. I was once playing a DPS with my healer friend in Aurum Vale, and the tank wasn't doing AOE attacks properly to hold mobs and let my healer friend die at least 3 times. After the healers third death, the tank told my friend to stop doing DPS because he was pulling aggro from him. After that my healer friend freaked out on the tank and refused to heal him letting him die at least 5 times in retaliation, he stopped DPS'ing and only focused on healing, he kept his mouth shut and we all made it to the final boss room after having to revive the tank after every pull. The tank ended up reporting my healer friend for griefing, and he got in absolutely zero trouble for it.

Like I've said over and over again, GM's can't tell the difference between incompetence and malicious play style with a battle log. Sometimes you get tanks who don't know how to hold aggro with AOE combos because they are just that incompetent. People who do stuff maliciously like my friend should be punished, I've said this repeatedly, but your expectations of GM's getting justice is just way too high. There's a reason we don't get information back on what happens to the people we report.

[Vickii]

I don’t pull but does arms length do more than knock back resist? Is it worth using in dungeon runs (if not pulling?)

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I don’t pull but does arms length do more than knock back resist? Is it worth using in dungeon runs (if not pulling?)

[Arm's Length] has an additional effect which grants you a barrier that inflicts slow (not heavy) debuff at whatever's hitting you under its duration. The only time I've seen and had a firsthand experience using it other than to nullify knockback as a non-tank is when the tank died which suddenly puts me on the top of aggro list. It's usually long enough to buy them time to res, wait the res animation while also keeping me alive in the place of tank temporarily.

It's still quite rare though.

[Vickii]

[Arm's Length] has an additional effect which grants you a barrier that inflicts slow (not heavy) debuff at whatever's hitting you under its duration. The only time I've seen and had a firsthand experience using it other than to nullify knockback as a non-tank is when the tank died which suddenly puts me on the top of aggro list. It's usually long enough to buy them time to res, wait the res animation while also keeping me alive in the place of tank temporarily.

It's still quite rare though.

Oh great thank you. Yes I tend to sit at top aggro as a MCH and occasionally have to kite a boss so I’ll pop it if the tank dies. Never realised it had this use .