DPS who pull mobs

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I'm sorry, but who's not letting you tank? You just need to come to mobs and start pressing AOE rotation and voila - All agro is yours! All you need to do is start actually doing your job instead of playing the *God's game*.
I swear, some people need to get off their high horse and chill sometimes.

...are you asking me to go back 5 years ago to find the name of the people who wouldn't let me tank?
What gods game? Im a tank, not a healer, the healer is the one that plays God XDD

I am perfectly chill. If they wanna take my job, I let them. Im not the one making a big deal. Just let me tank. If you want to tank, ill let you
100% maximum chill. No horse here

[Miracle_Diva]

...are you asking me to go back 5 years ago to find the name of the people who wouldn't let me tank?
What gods game? Im a tank, not a healer, the healer is the one that plays God XDD

I am perfectly chill. If they wanna take my job, I let them. Im not the one making a big deal. Just let me tank. If you want to tank, ill let you
100% maximum chill. No horse here

You completely ignored my question of who's actually not letting you tank.
I guess the actual answer to that is - you yourself. By refusing to tank.

[Jaelommiss]

I know what my job is as a tank

Do you, though? It is the responsibility of every player, regardless of role, to continuously contribute towards the successful completion of the duty. In almost every duty in the game this is achieved by slaying enemies. A tank contributes by 1) reducing enemy HP, and 2) mitigating incoming damage to allow the healer more time to reduce enemy HP.

Could you please explain how deliberately murdering your allies and refusing to attack the enemies is doing your job? There's a case to be made that by facilitating a wipe you are restoring enemy HP and undoing progress made by the party.

There are plenty of games with communities that encourage ego-centric toxicity, but this isn't one of them. Your attitude is an unwelcome hinderance. Get better or get out.

[ZedxKayn]

I know what my job is as a tank, which is why I personally have an issue with DPS trying to tank for me.

Which is to grab and hold aggro, not necessarily get it first.
It's as if a healer got pissy at a DNC for using Curing Waltz because its "their job to heal".

Im the Tank, let me do my job and tank. Its that simple. What is the point of me being a tank if a dps is gonna do it for me?

Then do your job as a tank and grab the aggro. You know damn well a DPS can't create more threat than you if you're not griefing. NO ONE in a dungeon can stop you from doing your job as a tank EXCEPT YOURSELF because no one else has enmity multiplying tools.

And Its just as petty to say Im being to slow, and call me a bad tank or a Griefer for not moving at the speed and level that the DPS wants me to.

It's not petty it's the truth. You're refusing to do your job over a petty grievance and letting people die over your misconception that you're the one who should get aggro first, that is textbook definition of griefing in video games.

Like I said a few times..I know what my job is as a Tank.

Do you? Because you refuse to do it.

Just because Im max level, doesnt mean I have the same skill ceiling or are as fast as others.

Yeah man turning your stance on, spamming AOEs and using sprint correctly is so difficult.
But if you're admitting that you might not be as efficient as others, do you think they should be punished for managing their sprint and positioning themselves better than you do? lol

[Vahlnir]

It's not petty it's the truth. You're refusing to do your job over a petty grievance and letting people die over your misconception that you're the one who should get aggro first, that is textbook definition of griefing in video games.

I mean, it IS the norm to let the tank grab aggro first. Even so that's no reason to let your party members die because someone was impatient, as annoying as it may be. That is indeed petty.

[Miracle_Diva]

If I didnt, I wouldn't play tank and I wouldn't have them at Max Level.

-Ok, then Ill stop tanking...just like I did. If its the truth, then let it be truth.
-Not that anybody is gonna care, but let me say that these happened years ago back in HW when I was learning and tanking was a LITTLE harder

If you know the difference between old tanking and current tanking, you should have 0 problems with someone else pulling mobs because for a tank it's 0 effort to take the aggro back.
I don't see how DPS is taking your tanking job. Unless it hurts your ego/feelings seeing that someone dared running in front of you in a dungeon.

[LianaThorne]

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

[Bright-Flower]

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

Ideally people would let the tank pull but some people are in such a hurry that even if the tank is doing big pulls they have to clear the dungeon 2 seconds faster by going ahead and pulling for the tank. A lot of people have a mentality of not just big pulls but 'speedrun this every second counts' for some reason.

[ZedxKayn]

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

I assume it's either from other MMOs or from previous expacs, I only really played during ShB so I wouldn't know. It's in the same line of thinking as "healers heal". It's not efficient to wait for a sluggish tank like it's not efficient for a healer to stand around waiting for the tank to drop to 90% to use Cure.

Tanks have a lot of defensive and using them doesn't sacrifice DPS, while bringing 3 DPS and 1 healer is definitely possible and probably faster (I do it every once in a while with premades) but people need to know their job well and use their mitigation, especially the healer, and that's just rare and doing it in DF will lead to wipes or slower runs nearly every time.

ATM aggro management just doesn't exist, hit your AOE once or twice and the mobs will be on the tank. If people are running ahead of the tank and start to DPS mobs sooner, it's gonna be just that: damage that starts coming out sooner, and therefore pack that will die sooner, it won't make the tank's job any harder, nor the healer's as long as they know that healing DPS during pulls who don't have aggro anymore is pointless.

[Rilifane]

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

In most dungeons, trash mobs don't do nearly enough damage to seriously endanger someone unless they tank for a long time without any healing. Any dps or healer can easily take a couple of hits. The tank grabbing aggro first is simply the most comfortable route because the sturdiest one takes every hit but some MMOs even relied on someone else pulling, so it's not a rule set in stone.
Even if someone isn't pulling ahead, it can easily happen that a dps grabs aggro by either dpsing on the run of having strong initial hits like Standard from DNC.
And if healers or dps are at least halfway sensible about it (tailing the tank, using selfheal/ Arm's Length's) there is no downside to a healer or dps pulling. The only thing that matters is that they always bring any mobs they have to the tank so he can easily catch them with aoe combos.
It's only problematic when they start running away because now the healer needs to periodically divide their attention and heals, making everything take longer.

I don't mind one bit if a dps or healer triggers the next mob group or even pulls them as long as they stick to the "bring it to the tank" rule. I can voke a single mob off someone but if they have an entire pack, it's in their best interest to stay/ come close to me so I can grab them all right away. If they are faster than me for whatever reason and stay close to me, I don't mind if someone else pulls. I get them back within 1-2 GCDs, no harm done.
They can pull ahead if they want or go wild with dps on the run, I don't mind. As long as they stay close to me and don't grief the healer by running away and requiring babysitting, it's all fine.