DPS who pull mobs

[ItMe]

So just to make it known to people coming at me, this attitude is from Years ago.

Is it your attitude from years ago? Because it's impossible to tell from your original post:

Im the opposite.
If Im suppose to be the tank, but the DPS decides they wanna be tank...Im taking off my stance and gonna let them have at it.
If they die...thats what happens when you decide your gonna overstep and take my job XD

So if all this is not something you currently believe why did you write it?
And how do you feel nowadays?

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Still, it would recommend you letting go of the past and move on. Things like that just happen sometimes and you should never take close to heart what random people on the internet tell you if you know, you're trying your best. Just ignore them and keep doing your best. With time and experience you'll get the hang of it. Just no need to let down those who didn't deserve it. Take a different look at others pulling mobs for you, there's nothing wrong with it, run will just go faster that way.

If it wasn't 100% Crystal Clear, I dont have this issue or Attitude anymore. This was projection from my days of Tanking in HW. None of this has happened in SB or ShB, and hopefully wont happen in EW.
Thank You for the kind words of encouragement

[Vahlnir]

It's not petty it's the truth. You're refusing to do your job over a petty grievance and letting people die over your misconception that you're the one who should get aggro first, that is textbook definition of griefing in video games.

I mean, it IS the norm to let the tank grab aggro first. Even so that's no reason to let your party members die because someone was impatient, as annoying as it may be. That is indeed petty.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Is it your attitude from years ago? Because it's impossible to tell from your original post:

I know, that was the point of the Independent Post.
I stand by that post, because its how I felt back when I was tanking and dealing with DPS pulling MOBs in HW. It was relevant to the topic.
The new Independent post is to squash this belief that I still run around the game "Being a bad and toxic tank whos ego is bruised and on their high-horse"
I didnt mention this was HW experience beforehand, I just pushed the narrative how I felt about it.

[LianaThorne]

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

[Bright-Flower]

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

Ideally people would let the tank pull but some people are in such a hurry that even if the tank is doing big pulls they have to clear the dungeon 2 seconds faster by going ahead and pulling for the tank. A lot of people have a mentality of not just big pulls but 'speedrun this every second counts' for some reason.

[ZedxKayn]

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

I assume it's either from other MMOs or from previous expacs, I only really played during ShB so I wouldn't know. It's in the same line of thinking as "healers heal". It's not efficient to wait for a sluggish tank like it's not efficient for a healer to stand around waiting for the tank to drop to 90% to use Cure.

Tanks have a lot of defensive and using them doesn't sacrifice DPS, while bringing 3 DPS and 1 healer is definitely possible and probably faster (I do it every once in a while with premades) but people need to know their job well and use their mitigation, especially the healer, and that's just rare and doing it in DF will lead to wipes or slower runs nearly every time.

ATM aggro management just doesn't exist, hit your AOE once or twice and the mobs will be on the tank. If people are running ahead of the tank and start to DPS mobs sooner, it's gonna be just that: damage that starts coming out sooner, and therefore pack that will die sooner, it won't make the tank's job any harder, nor the healer's as long as they know that healing DPS during pulls who don't have aggro anymore is pointless.

[Rilifane]

Potentially stupid question here but I also haven't been around that long. Genuinely curious now after reading the discussion.

If tanks aren't meant to be the one to grab aggro first, why is there like...an unspoken rule in dungeons that the tank leads the party/grabs the boss first/etc?

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

I might just be oblivious or ignorant but, I've always been under the impression that the tank is like the bodyguard of the group and is meant to be the one to do everything first and that DPS are supposed to help take down what the tank grabs without yanking the aggro themselves because it puts more work on the healer.

In most dungeons, trash mobs don't do nearly enough damage to seriously endanger someone unless they tank for a long time without any healing. Any dps or healer can easily take a couple of hits. The tank grabbing aggro first is simply the most comfortable route because the sturdiest one takes every hit but some MMOs even relied on someone else pulling, so it's not a rule set in stone.
Even if someone isn't pulling ahead, it can easily happen that a dps grabs aggro by either dpsing on the run of having strong initial hits like Standard from DNC.
And if healers or dps are at least halfway sensible about it (tailing the tank, using selfheal/ Arm's Length's) there is no downside to a healer or dps pulling. The only thing that matters is that they always bring any mobs they have to the tank so he can easily catch them with aoe combos.
It's only problematic when they start running away because now the healer needs to periodically divide their attention and heals, making everything take longer.

I don't mind one bit if a dps or healer triggers the next mob group or even pulls them as long as they stick to the "bring it to the tank" rule. I can voke a single mob off someone but if they have an entire pack, it's in their best interest to stay/ come close to me so I can grab them all right away. If they are faster than me for whatever reason and stay close to me, I don't mind if someone else pulls. I get them back within 1-2 GCDs, no harm done.
They can pull ahead if they want or go wild with dps on the run, I don't mind. As long as they stay close to me and don't grief the healer by running away and requiring babysitting, it's all fine.

[Arrius]

What is the point of even having tanks if a WHM, for example, can do just the same job with Holy spam and self-heals?

Enemy mob attacks, especially crits, can interrupt spellcasting. I think that's based on how much you lose on the attack. 15-20% of your max HP on a single strike/action can interrupt casting.
Also, telegraphs can force you to move while having the other mobs stuck on you, otherwise you risk getting interrupted by a unlucky crit.
And then there are status effects. Rare as they are, stun and paralyze can ruin your day.

[Jijifli]

If I didnt, I wouldn't play tank and I wouldn't have them at Max Level.
How am I murdering my allies? Does FFXIV have Friendly fire that Im unaware of? Or is this just a silly question to further demonize me for saying "If Im a Tank, let me Tank?"

If you really wanna grasp that straw so hard, I'll grasp it too. If I'm a dps, let me dps. I can't dps if you won't pull.

If I miss a foul tick because you had to stop, I am probably just going to foul. I am a dps, and I am doing dps. You are a sponge, you should sponge.

And yes I did read your heavensward post. Guess who also leveled all 3 tanks that expac, with no prior tanking experience? Though, weird I never ran into this issue, as I just either pulled more, or if people pulled for me, I'd just rip it off of them, pretty easily still. Aggro was harder to get, but it wasn't impossible, and being in tank stance like you should have been still, you'd generate enough threat easily with any of the 3 aoe buttons since those had an extra enmity multiplier on it.

Oh, and for the "How am I murdering my allies" part, you're gonna tell me that you're that dense to not put two and two together, that you standing there doing nothing to take threat means people are going to take damage that you could easily be preventing and/or sponging?