Fishing needs a total overhaul

[Fruity_Snacks]

How about they just change Fishing to be more like Spearfishing. Nodes, 3 sets of lure you switch between, and abilities that actually manipulate the odds properly like Spearfishing. Everybody I know who hates fishing hates it because of how it works. They all seem to love Spearfishing as well, the reasons I've been given include how less frustrating it is as a whole due to how much easier it is thanks to nodes and being able to manipulate the odds for longer, like Botany and Mining. If it wasn't for Spearfishing, I don't think I'd have made it through the Crystarium quests for Fisherman (I hated how I could only fish for this) or even leveled up FSH up to 80 (I leveled it up ONLY through Spearfishing).

Even without adding nodes, they can change the lure system and the "catch tables" to adjust. Just...don't leave it like it is, it's beyond stupid and frustrating, especially since it's MANDATORY to finish off all the Crystarium quests (I still don't know why they didn't just put Culinarian with this).

Spearfishing was added to fishing to get those who liked MIN/BTN to do a little bit more fishing. This is why a lot of the GC turn-ins are spearfish. And why Ocean Fishing is a thing now too; get more people fishing.

It's funny you suggest using Spearfishing as the replacement for rod fishing because it is, in my opinion, far more rng dependent than normal fishing - DUE TO the lack of bait options (baits in this case being spear heads). So many fish overlap that you can't select the bait you need to get the exact fish you want.

Nodes wouldn't improve anything because fishing holes are better.

All of these suggestions would basically gut any identity to fisher, solely because some folks "don't like fisher/fishing".

Fisher is unique; always has been, and always should be.

[Iscah]

I'm just having trouble seeing the arguments against bait buying or why would people want to get rid of the need to buy bait - or even the need for bait in general? Is it Convenience? Gil? Too many types of bait to find? You just don't like Fishing and want it to be like every other DoL in the game? Do you want bait to be gatherable or earned through turn ins? There's an answer to all of this.

Simple enough – have it all on hand as a built-in ability of the job, like the gig heads for spearfishing. No simplification, no dumbing down, no overreaching accusations. Just remove the need for it to take up double the inventory space of other jobs by requiring you to carry both bait and caught fish.

If you need a shortlist, it could be handled something like BLU's spells where you have a larger stock in reserve but only nominate the specific few baits you want to see at the moment. Maybe you put them as separate hotbar abilities and do away with the tackle box altogether.

[RyuDragnier]

It's funny you suggest using Spearfishing as the replacement for rod fishing because it is, in my opinion, far more rng dependent than normal fishing - DUE TO the lack of bait options (baits in this case being spear heads). So many fish overlap that you can't select the bait you need to get the exact fish you want.

Spearfishing has Veteran Trade, which lasts for the rest of the node (3-4 attempts if you use it after the first catch), each gig type only catches 2-4 different fish from that node, and the fish you catch is not effected by weather or time of day. Compare this to regular fishing, where Surface Slap only lasts for 15s and effects the next fish only, and fish are dependent on weather, time of day, and the bait you use (there are over 50 different bait in this game). Between the two of them, Spearfishing is far less RNG dependent as a whole due to the combination of the gig type and Veteran Trade.

Surface Slap needs to be at least 2 minutes long to be worth using, and there are so many fish in a single spot that changing to a 3 Lure type system would actually HELP the RNG, especially if they threw out the asinine weather requirements. Time of day is fine, but when you need a specific weather, and a specific time of day combination, it could take you a week of real time just to get the combination needed, and then a 7 minute real life window to catch the fish you want. That is beyond insanity, and is not fun.

[Fruity_Snacks]

Spearfishing has Veteran Trade, which lasts for the rest of the node (3-4 attempts if you use it after the first catch), each gig type only catches 2-4 different fish from that node, and the fish you catch is not effected by weather or time of day. Compare this to regular fishing, where Surface Slap only lasts for 15s and effects the next fish only, and fish are dependent on weather, time of day, and the bait you use (there are over 50 different bait in this game). Between the two of them, Spearfishing is far less RNG dependent as a whole due to the combination of the gig type and Veteran Trade.

Surface Slap needs to be at least 2 minutes long to be worth using, and there are so many fish in a single spot that changing to a 3 Lure type system would actually HELP the RNG, especially if they threw out the asinine weather requirements. Time of day is fine, but when you need a specific weather, and a specific time of day combination, it could take you a week of real time just to get the combination needed, and then a 7 minute real life window to catch the fish you want. That is beyond insanity, and is not fun.

What you listed doesn't make spearfishing less RNG dependent. It makes it easier to just get more of whatever random fish you get. The reason why Fishing has it easier is because of all the bait choices. We can look up exactly which bait to use for the best chance (which many times is upwards of 75%) for a specific fish. You reduce the number of baits to 3 across upwards of 10 fish in a fishing hole, you're going to have overlap between fish, meaning you're going to get more of the fish you don't want.

Fun fact, surface slap lasts for 15s for it to be activated. Once it's activated, it won't be removed until you catch a fish. If you let a fish go, it remains! You can hold it forever, if you want. You can hold it until you know exactly what's going to be on the line (which with a little be thought isn't hard to figure out) and THEN reel in.

How do we know what's on the line, you ask? Easy! All that asinine stuff you don't seem to like. Time of day, weather, previous weather, bait, location -- give someone who knows fishing any of those and they'll tell you how to get EXACTLY the fish you want. You take any of those away, and fishing becomes harder.

I'm sorry that you don't have fun with fishing, and seem to hate it, but your suggestions to make it better really only seem to make it better for you, not everyone else.

Simple enough – have it all on hand as a built-in ability of the job, like the gig heads for spearfishing. No simplification, no dumbing down, no overreaching accusations. Just remove the need for it to take up double the inventory space of other jobs by requiring you to carry both bait and caught fish.

If you need a shortlist, it could be handled something like BLU's spells where you have a larger stock in reserve but only nominate the specific few baits you want to see at the moment. Maybe you put them as separate hotbar abilities and do away with the tackle box altogether.

I get this, and I'm eh on it as a seasoned fisher. Better bait management for sure would be helpful, but see Tyo's post a little earlier about baits and how it's not as simple as just "give everyone all their bait at once."

[Calysto]

Surface Slap only lasts for 15s and effects the next fish only

No. Surface Slap can be used for 15s after catching a fish, but once ou use it, there is no time limit.
If you're trying to catch a big fish (!!!) you can ignore all other catchs and you keep a reduced fish pool.

[RyuDragnier]

What you listed doesn't make spearfishing less RNG dependent. It makes it easier to just get more of whatever random fish you get.

That is what making things less RNG dependent does, it makes it easier to get what you want.

No. Surface Slap can be used for 15s after catching a fish, but once ou use it, there is no time limit.
If you're trying to catch a big fish (!!!) you can ignore all other catchs and you keep a reduced fish pool.

Thanks for the clarification, it's not really worded well in the actions list.

[Fruity_Snacks]

That is what making things less RNG dependent does, it makes it easier to get what you want.

I may have not clearly stated what I meant to.

With normal fishing, we can also confidently predict what will bite when we cast out. With Spearfishing, it's a toss up. You poke the bubbles and get some random fish. With Veteran Trade you poke the bubbles and get some random fish minus one. There's far less control over the pool with your suggestions, and far less RNG control. You may get MORE of a fish, but you won't know for sure what it is. You have, much, much less of an idea of what you're going to get when you spearfish, compared to rod fishing.

[RyuDragnier]

I may have not clearly stated what I meant to.

With normal fishing, we can also confidently predict what will bite when we cast out. With Spearfishing, it's a toss up. You poke the bubbles and get some random fish. With Veteran Trade you poke the bubbles and get some random fish minus one. There's far less control over the pool with your suggestions, and far less RNG control. You may get MORE of a fish, but you won't know for sure what it is. You have, much, much less of an idea of what you're going to get when you spearfish, compared to rod fishing.

Depending on the location, anyway. Worst ones I've seen you've taken the odds from 25% to 33% (not that different from regular fishing). Best cases there's only 2 fish so your odds go from 50% to 100% of collecting the fish you want. While you can know what you'll get ahead of time with regular fishing, you're having to use a guide outside of the game just to figure out the conditions, weather, everything just to collect your fish (including the timer on pulls). You're also wasting bait every time the fish you want doesn't pull on the line, resulting in the loss of tens of thousands of gil. I prefer a system to where it's random, but I don't have to consult a guide, compared to one where I have to look up a guide just to find out I have to catch a fish in the middle of June at night in a monsoon during a blue moon with a bait I can only get from using X amount of scrips that have a weekly cap. A gross exaggeration, but you can get the frustration.

[Brightamethyst]

With normal fishing, we can also confidently predict what will bite when we cast out. With Spearfishing, it's a toss up. You poke the bubbles and get some random fish.

You can predict what CAN bite, not what will. Most of the time you're still at the mercy of RNG to actually get the bite you want. Getting a random fish from a node is exactly the same as getting a random bite from a cast. The only difference is that you can choose not to reel in a cast if you want.

[Fruity_Snacks]

Depending on the location, anyway... <snip for char length>

With the right bait you can take a fish from 25% to up to 100%. Surface Slap can take a fish from, 90% to 100% (look at Moggle Mogpom for example, with Surface slap you can take it from a 21% chance to a 100% chance). These are not things you can do with Spearfishing.
The reason we can do them is because of the four main conditions of rod fishing -- Bait, Time, Weather, Location. Your suggestion to remove that so it just 3 baits and whatever removes any chance of being able to take that 21% to 100%.

It's also worth noting that unless you're going for Big/Legendary Fish (the rare ones added each patch) you do not need to deal with conditions most of the time. Useful fish, like Blue Crab, Sweetmeat Mussels, etc are always up. You just need the right bait (and most of the time you just need Versatile lure). You don't really care about anything besides Bait and Location.

All that said -- you're right. In-game knowledge of the conditions for fishing is not very good. Part of this is by design, they want fish to be discovered, to be accidentally caught while you're just going for a random cast one day. It has been suggested and talked about for a long while that fish should, at a certain point, have better in-game references. No one wants fishing to immediately tell you, on patch day, where and what a fishes conditions are. Part of the of the fun and (imo) greatness of fishing is the fact that there isn't this information immediately, and that the community comes together to find all the fish. But, the suggestion of the log being more filled in as expansions come out, or even NPC's providing little hints and clues to what fish might be where and when, has been discussed. There's just a fine line between providing info to make it more accessible for folks, and just giving the answer out. Doing the latter would ruin one of the fun things about fishing for a LOT of people.

(And, as for quests, they pretty much tell you exactly what and where you need to be for fishing, so for those you just need to read the dialogue/quest description)

You can predict what CAN bite, not what will.. <snip for char length>

You're still at the mercy of RNG, but if you give me the specifics of what's happening with a bite (bite type, weather, time, bait, etc), I can tell you with confidence what fish was about to bite with far, far more confidence than spearfishing. I won't agree that Spearfishing and Casting are exactly the same in terms of the RNG mechanics, since we can be more selective with rod fishing, but will concede that I may have been a little too over-zealous with my confidence.

It is though, much easier to know what will be on the other end of a stick with Rod fishing, than it is spearfishing. (Also see above as to why Spearfishing and removing fishing conditions is bad for gameplay).