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  1. #1
    Player
    Colt47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,809
    Character
    Kan Himaa
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by VentVanitas View Post
    ...What? Sure, I can agree to both having pretty bad levelling experiences, BLM suffers from spells becoming obsolete as its rotation keeps changing up until it unlocks Enochian- but saying it has the most issues out of other jobs because of low level experiences and ignoring how they function in current content is a very inaccurate way to judge a job's design as a whole. BLM is far from the job with the most issues. Yes, a levelling experience should be more smooth- but it's hardly the most pressing issue on any job because ultimately what matters is how the kit functions at the level cap because you need to know if all those skills/traits you learnt actually amount to anything.

    Furthermore I heavily disagree with your "gold standard." Does that mean you find MNK good because it has the exact same rotation for all 80 levels? But let's go with your mindset and say MCH is great because the rotation doesn't change much from levels 60-80, allowing a smooth levelling experience. What does that do about the objective flaws in a lot of its skills like Wildfire, Hypercharge or Turret/Queen?
    It's not my gold standard. I'm telling you that is the standard they have been aiming for since stormblood and the introduction of the samurai and red mage, which also is at a gold standard as far as how it plays and gains abilities with levels. Monk just recently got overhauled and they are probably not done with it yet. I don't generally like melee dps because of the whole positional requirements. Nothing like having to prioritize which side you are supposed to stand on when boss design has directional cleaves and other fun stuff. Albeit, some people love that kind of thing.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Colt47 View Post
    The two Jobs that have the most issues in the game are probably Black Mage and Summoner. It has nothing to do with the End Game experience on them, because I think both are fairly good. Black Mage is just rough because what defines a caster is the casting timer, and it's the poster child of the entire caster lineup so it has some of the most outrageously big cast timers of any job. What makes those two problematic is that what they do changes a lot from low level to high level, making level sync a problem.

    We can basically judge what is at the gold standard by what jobs are keeping the same rotation as they level up and just adding things to them. So stuff like Machinist actually is at gold standard. Dark Knight is another job at Gold Standard, and I believe the four jobs they introduced in the last two expansions are at gold standard. The ones that are problematic are ARR and HW. You can't really learn a job if the job doesn't even give you the right rotation until level 70 or 72. Paladin is kind of iffy on their rotation and I think they are definitely doing some tweaks to it come End Walker.
    Wrong, if it was true you'd get the whole rotation from lv50.
    The leveling experience only serves to learn the basics, each time you get a new skills, it's like another note added to a song. Leveling only serves as progressively learn your job until you reach the cap where you have all the tools to complete your learning. SMN is a mess, that's true and BLM is for sure completely different between 70 and 80 as most of the skills learned are QoLs.
    What's the point of balancing jobs during leveling when a player will spend at most 1 hour until a new skill is added? Leveling is a tutorial to the job basic, it's pointless to balance and design around job leveling.

    Your rotation will evolve in any cases as Dungeons are mostly trash group followed by a boss, starting with some resources.
    Use MCH as an example, your "gold" standard. Auto-Cross Bow and Bio-Blaster are far more usefull in these scenarios but won't be seen in endgame content with a single target, which is more than 90% of the played game.
    (2)
    Last edited by CKNovel; 04-07-2021 at 06:23 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    ItMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Lumsa Lomsa
    Posts
    4,178
    Character
    Iiiiiiiiiiit's Meeeee
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by CKNovel View Post
    but won't be seen in endgame content with a single target, which is more than 90% of the played game.
    Depends on your personal endgame yo.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    HollyJollyPaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Adonis Peachblossom
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    I have yet to get my set of skills past ARR so correct me if there's abilities I have yet to learn but...

    PLEASE LET BARDS GET THE MUSIC BUFFS! Adonis is more than willing to sing the song of her people so that they can kill dungeon trash faster but man, I need some of that too please and thank you. Also maybe an dot aoe? Like a rain of death getting a shortened caustic bite timer. Maybe if I'm really selfish, a new song that can do some good debuffing on the enemy? We got songs to buff our party but haha imagine a song that did damage to an enemy, with debuff affecting it and surrounding enemies in a small radius? Let me belt out something cringe to scare the enemy XD
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    SweetPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    991
    Character
    Princess- Princess
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by HollyJollyPaca View Post
    I have yet to get my set of skills past ARR so correct me if there's abilities I have yet to learn but...

    PLEASE LET BARDS GET THE MUSIC BUFFS! Adonis is more than willing to sing the song of her people so that they can kill dungeon trash faster but man, I need some of that too please and thank you. Also maybe an dot aoe? Like a rain of death getting a shortened caustic bite timer. Maybe if I'm really selfish, a new song that can do some good debuffing on the enemy? We got songs to buff our party but haha imagine a song that did damage to an enemy, with debuff affecting it and surrounding enemies in a small radius? Let me belt out something cringe to scare the enemy XD
    Go to YouTube and look up Stormblood bard. That was the best bard amazing support for party and a skill that debuffed the enemy. In shadowbringers they destroyed bard sadly. Let’s hope they redeem themselves in Endwalker.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Ryaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Mist Ward 21, Plot 45
    Posts
    1,845
    Character
    Ryaz Darksbane
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    I know it's not going to happen, but I'd like to see them remove Ikishoten and revert Hagakure to the old form so Samurai can have a flexible rotation again instead of the stiff, filler filled rotation we have now.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    JisKing98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Ul-Dah
    Posts
    353
    Character
    Yasuo Theunforgiven
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 80
    for sam id like to see more hard hitting combos. Also buff the dmg buff to 20% and skill speed buff to 15%. give us a different tsubame for higanbana cause I don't think anyone ever uses it. let us spam midares as well and let kaeshi:setsugekka be the big ender.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Jirah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,867
    Character
    Jira Dal'riata
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    BRD:
    Just rewrite Soul gauge I feel it could be a fun central mechanic but rn it just a clunky skill.
    Have some ST skills be more aoe friendly like Barrage, Emperyl, Minuet, ect but honestly its benign
    Extend Refulgent arrow ready, 10 seconds for a proc is annoying especially with transitions
    Give the EA trait MUCH earlier than in 68.
    Reduce Sidewinder to 30 seconds to align better with its other skills
    Give Warden's Paean stacks
    Give us some variant of Wanderers muse! All those wasted stacks!
    Reevaluate Bloodlettter/Rain of Death to be more coherent with Mages, everyone wants stacks but idk I feel theres better alternatives

    MCH:
    ok MCH biggest issue with me is that its a perfectly functional Tricycle while every other job are full on Vehicles. Its underdeveloped and its hard to really nitpick at it and improve a Tricycle when most of the jobs issues are complex. It was easy to pin ways to improve HW and SB MCH but SHb its too hollow and one-note and ive said this like 100 times on these forums because I adore this job and spent months with it getting savage clears, Glams, and weapons just for it to be plastered to not improve but to be more accessible. and the fanfare bugs me as this may be a sign the job wont change which is a crime. It is the smallest job out of all of them it needs more to it and even nitpicking at its small kit there's so much dead weight and blubber to the job with very little juxtaposition between them from its ST and Aoes. I dont want MCH to be this behemoth of a job with several mechanics but all I want from it is to Improve, expand, evolve by any means.
    (0)
    “Theirs really not much you can change with the MCH”
    -Live letter 66, 9/17/21

    Where is the ambition?

  9. #9
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jirah View Post
    MCH:
    ok MCH biggest issue with me is that its a perfectly functional Tricycle while every other job are full on Vehicles. Its underdeveloped and its hard to really nitpick at it and improve a Tricycle when most of the jobs issues are complex. It was easy to pin ways to improve HW and SB MCH but SHb its too hollow and one-note and ive said this like 100 times on these forums because I adore this job and spent months with it getting savage clears, Glams, and weapons just for it to be plastered to not improve but to be more accessible. and the fanfare bugs me as this may be a sign the job wont change which is a crime. It is the smallest job out of all of them it needs more to it and even nitpicking at its small kit there's so much dead weight and blubber to the job with very little juxtaposition between them from its ST and Aoes. I dont want MCH to be this behemoth of a job with several mechanics but all I want from it is to Improve, expand, evolve by any means.
    I truly think not a lot of developpers plays MCH at SQEX.
    SMN is a mess? Got a fix within a patch, but remains a pet mess.
    NIN is a mess? Got a fix within a patch, one of the most liked job.
    MNK is a mess? Got a fix on the troublesome ability and a rework within the expansion. (kinda suffers the MCH treatment, thought)
    SAM's Shoha is boring? Got a quick rework within a patch.
    WAR gets a useless cleanse? Turns it into a party wide shield.

    MCH remained a mess for 2 years with no change. A easy change during SB would've been that Rapidfire triggers overheat or that Wildfire triggers overheat. All that was asked was an "overheat button" but nothing was done for 2 years. Now, how long has it been since MCH got the awful Flamethrower?
    It's been 4 years since one of the worst, boring abilities in the game has been implemented and it was never touched beyond removing the heat generation and the potency.

    They kinda gave up with ranged for this expansion, their priority is to make Melee job easier to play with hitboxes large as half the arena, boss disappearing as soon as there is a mechanic including movement or full circle positionnals. Cross your finger very hard, my expectations are at the lowest when it comes to MCH and ranged in general. Let's get an automaton King that does only AoE damage so we never see it in single target content!
    (3)

  10. #10
    Player
    VentVanitas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    676
    Character
    Seiko Hanamura
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CKNovel View Post
    I truly think not a lot of developpers plays MCH at SQEX.
    SMN is a mess? Got a fix within a patch, but remains a pet mess.
    NIN is a mess? Got a fix within a patch, one of the most liked job.
    MNK is a mess? Got a fix on the troublesome ability and a rework within the expansion. (kinda suffers the MCH treatment, thought)
    SAM's Shoha is boring? Got a quick rework within a patch.
    WAR gets a useless cleanse? Turns it into a party wide shield.

    MCH remained a mess for 2 years with no change. A easy change during SB would've been that Rapidfire triggers overheat or that Wildfire triggers overheat. All that was asked was an "overheat button" but nothing was done for 2 years. Now, how long has it been since MCH got the awful Flamethrower?
    It's been 4 years since one of the worst, boring abilities in the game has been implemented and it was never touched beyond removing the heat generation and the potency.

    They kinda gave up with ranged for this expansion, their priority is to make Melee job easier to play with hitboxes large as half the arena, boss disappearing as soon as there is a mechanic including movement or full circle positionnals. Cross your finger very hard, my expectations are at the lowest when it comes to MCH and ranged in general. Let's get an automaton King that does only AoE damage so we never see it in single target content!
    It really makes you wonder what the design team was even thinking when they decided to go with all these awful decisions on launch, wondering if they even played the game at all considering that a lot of the reworks applied over 5.X could've easily been included in launch instead of making people wait months/years for simple QoL. There are very clear signs that jobs on launch were not playtested as much as others. (e.g. RDM, AST or SCH not even being able to finish fights without being able to run out of MP, as if they thought that people would play dungeons and only dungeons.)
    (0)
    Last edited by VentVanitas; 04-15-2021 at 07:31 PM.

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