A potential rework to the level-sync system.

[Penthea]

That only counts when you are still low level outside of the dungeon. Once you get the nice, fancy new skills, the gauges and such, you'll notice how annoying it is. In some cases you have the gauge, but no skills or abilities to use it. being level 70+ and que'ing in leveling roulette for the huge XP, but then being stuck in sastasha at level 15 is a big joke, and Im sure Im not the only one with this feeling.

Well speaking as a player who has played in Sastasha with max lvl classes it doesn't annoy me much that I can't use most of my skills. Do I enjoy it? Not really but it doesn't bother me enough to annoy me. I understand why the lvl sync system works the way it does, and I like that it puts players on similar footing in a dungeon instead of having sprouts watching all the content being blasted for them if they happen to be grouped up with players who are far higher lvl.

Most players want to be able to participate in the content they're doing, and allowing players to have their full arsenal of skills in even the lowest lvl content would achieve the opposite of this because things would die so quickly. Even with the damage output adjusted for the content having major cds, ogcds and aoe would be enough to trivialise so much. Sastasha doesn't have mobs designed to endure lots of aoe because at that lvl players have little to none. Putting in players with strong aoe in there would make the content an absolute snoozefest. You think it's boring now? Well it would be even more boring if the mobs fell over in just a few aoe hits.

I can tell you that if FFXIV allowed players with all their skills blaze their way through low lvl content in DF then I would have unsubbed before I got to lvl 50. I want my participation to matter, not have it snatched away from me by a far higher lvl player with an enormous set of skills compared to me. I don't want someone else to kill everything before I even get the chance to feel how my class works in group content. I don't want to be boosted.

One of the main reasons why I quit WoW was because the lower lvl instanced content at the time was incredibly dull. Things died with little effort. I barely had the chance to actually use my class. It made lvling up excruciatingly tedious. Had I encountered the same thing in FFXIV I would have moved on to a different game very quickly.

I am not saying I found Sastasha challenging even when I first did it, but the mobs didn't fall over so fast that I felt like I could go afk and little would change. They die faster now but still a lot slower than the low lvl dungeon mobs in the state WoW was in before I quit. The content still requires some amount of attention from everyone to be done in a timely manner.

Also the topic of players not knowing how to play well in high lvl content is very frequently discussed here. Well if lvl sync did not remove abilities from higher lvl players, then sprouts would have even less opportunity to learn how their classes work due to higher lvl players trivialising content for them. It would result in even more players not playing at an acceptable standard at higher lvl. Some people here really need to look at the bigger picture.

[Jojoya]

If the current skill sync that we have now is truly "healthy" for both the gameplay and the community, then why do most people turn it off via undersized parties when given the chance in Party Finder the moment the situation allows for it? If people truly enjoyed the "challenging" outdated content that we have now, then why do nearly all veterans AND sprouts just bumrush to the finish line instead of taking in the sights and exploring slowly and carefully? If players truly found forced skill sync so "engaging" in old content, then why do so many people play Blue Mage?

Because they want to get their reward and get out as fast as possible from content they've already done dozens if not hundreds of times. Challenge has disappeared once you've done the content enough times.

Good job bringing up BLU because that's the best possible example of why skill sync is needed since BLU has no skill sync in any content.

It's okay for them to make that choice for themselves. It's not okay for them to make that choice for other players, especially when that's going to ruin the experience for new players doing the content for the first time. Most players like to feel their contribution means something when first doing the content. It's only once they've repeated it several times that they stop caring.

Low level content isn't there for your benefit. It's there for the benefit of players who are leveling and learning. Don't like the skill sync? Don't queue for low level content or roulettes that can put you into low level content. They don't offer any rewards that you can't get doing max level content outside of the dungeon specific gear and if you're after that, you're probably going to run it unsynced for speed repeats anyway. Stick to the Level 80 and Expert Roulettes.

[Deceptus]

Because they want to get their reward and get out as fast as possible from content they've already done dozens if not hundreds of times. Challenge has disappeared once you've done the content enough times.

Good job bringing up BLU because that's the best possible example of why skill sync is needed since BLU has no skill sync in any content.

BLU is a bad example because it's an apples to oranges comparison.

BLU's power comes in their ability to freeze enemies (trash) and then one shot them.

Otherwise, they're an under powered dps who has to cast 200 potency aoe (with dropoff). Go try to kill a group without ultravibration or any of the other one shot spells. It takes a bit to kill a pack.

If anything, it shows how keeping your skills CAN be done.

If one person is synced down from 80 an keeps their skills, the run will go faster. (if DPS)

If two people are synced down, the run will go really fast. (Especially if DPS), not so much if it's a tank and healer who are synced down.

If four people are synced down? Then no "newbie" is helped, you're doing old outdated content so again WHO CARES?

Just as an aside I want to mention this:

I routinely help people get their BLU spells Mind Blast and Glower. Those can be unsynced as the learn rate is 100%. I do this on my PLD.

Guess what?

I equip the ilvl 90 Curtana Nexus to kill the bosses and do you know why?

EVEN AT LVL 80 AN ILVL 90 ITEM CAN NOT ONE SHOT A LVL 15 BOSS WITH AUTO ATTACKS.

Now imagine what will happen when instead of the 53 damage Nexus weapon we have the 13 damage it would be synced down

I really think people are severely overthinking how powerful we are and how limiting weapon damage really is.

[Kemiko]

SNIP

BLU isn't even a real job. It's a Limited Job. It's not a good example of anything other than a job intended to be outside the norm.

And good job moving the goal post. Nothing here was brought up about weapon damage, just your job abilities in sync content. Higher level job abilities generally comes with higher potency, which translates to more damage. So, by default, if you kept these job abilities in content not intended for them to exist you'll be doing more than the intended damage. But wait, what if your potencies were reduced to compensate for this?

You will also have more job abilities than intended, allowing you more actions than intended. Using the worst offender, Sastasha with an at level player will be outshined by a lv80 player, even if said 80 was nerfed heavily to compensate. But, nerf them harder, I hear. In which case you're putting in a tremendous amount of effort to reach the average LV15 players state of play that not even on release max level Extreme trials demand. Very quickly people will question the purpose of being so heavily nerfed when the game is supposed to be a welcoming experience.

I really hate to say that I honestly agree with the "just don't do it then" sentiment as much as I think it's a poor answer to this discussion. As much as people would enjoy keeping their kit throughout the game, the fact of the matter is you do not in situations you agree to. You agree to a sync in a dungeon before you go in, you agree to a sync in a FATE before you participate in it, you agree to a sync for single-player duties if you happen to be overleveled when you attempt it. At no point are you forced to do any of this, even Main Scenario, if you really don't want to. And, at least outside of Main Scenario, you aren't missing anything for not doing it. You are granted incentive for sure, but let's not pretend we aren't privy to intention sync attempts to provide.

If you must do a low level dungeon, and you aren't agreeing to the rules of a roulette, you always do have the option to undersize it solo or with others looking to do the same. In the case of you going into a roulette and all involved are not new to the instance hardly means they aren't using it for the other incentives provided (such as boosted experience) and could still be at-level with the content. In the event all present are max level, you're just here for the tomes - we all know this and you knew what you signed up for. That's the nature of the deal.

[Deceptus]

I really hate to say that I honestly agree with the "just don't do it then" sentiment as much as I think it's a poor answer to this discussion. As much as people would enjoy keeping their kit throughout the game, the fact of the matter is you do not in situations you agree to. You agree to a sync in a dungeon before you go in, you agree to a sync in a FATE before you participate in it, you agree to a sync for single-player duties if you happen to be overleveled when you attempt it. At no point are you forced to do any of this, even Main Scenario, if you really don't want to. And, at least outside of Main Scenario, you aren't missing anything for not doing it. You are granted incentive for sure, but let's not pretend we aren't privy to intention sync attempts to provide.

Here's why the "Just don't do it" mindset doesn't work.

Fewer players in the roulettes results in higher queue times. Do you really want the return of 30 minute queues for dps players?

Veteran players need an incentive to queue for things that might not benefit them. IMHO being synced to content where you go from 24 buttons to 2 is more of a disincentive to queue for certain content.

[linayar]

Here's why the "Just don't do it" mindset doesn't work.

Fewer players in the roulettes results in higher queue times. Do you really want the return of 30 minute queues for dps players?

Veteran players need an incentive to queue for things that might not benefit them. IMHO being synced to content where you go from 24 buttons to 2 is more of a disincentive to queue for certain content.

I don't usually see 30-minute DPS queues with the system as is right now, so this particular argument doesn't make sense.

And as we've established, SE has other ways to incentivize running old contents.

[Kemiko]

I was just about to say, incentives are already there. The fact anyone does roulettes at all is more than likely compliment of the rewards it gives, which in and of itself is the incentive and I haven't had a 30m+ queue as a DPS since Heavensward release.

The "Just don't do it" response I admitted is a poor answer but sadly, I agree with, because it merely devolves into a discussion of preferences where one side wants a change and disregards the reasoning behind the current implementation. I've already stated I think the level-sync system could be improved and gave a method in which I think would improve it, without endangering the current system or presumably its intent. I also completely understand the desire to maintain all the job abilities one gains when engaging in the games content but I also understand the reason the level-sync system was implemented in the first place and unfortunately, there's no clear cut solution that I've seen presented to enable that while also maintaining the level sync intent. I think it's a poor answer but, unfortunately, is also the one currently best suited at present.

[Deceptus]

I don't usually see 30-minute DPS queues with the system as is right now, so this particular argument doesn't make sense.

And as we've established, SE has other ways to incentivize running old contents.

They used to exist. That's the point. And will come back if people stop queuing into the roulettes.

[Penthea]

Veteran players need an incentive to queue for things that might not benefit them. IMHO being synced to content where you go from 24 buttons to 2 is more of a disincentive to queue for certain content.

There are already incentives: tomes and xp.

Players are not going to run content solely because they get to keep all their skills. Players generally do content to get something or to help someone else get something. Even if someone were to abstain from doing lower lvl roulettes to get tomes, the fact remains that they are queuing for content because they want tomes.

Remove the tomes and xp gains, and replace them with giving players all their skills in any content, you would actually see a drop in the amount of people who do lower lvl roulettes. Why? Because they would simply go elsewhere to get some manner of useful loot. Having all your skills isn't enough of an incentive for most people to do content because it would be seen as a waste of time to do content for no reward for themselves or a buddy they're helping.

Having a Sastasha lvl of kit isn't exciting to say the least, but I can guarantee it wouldn't be much more fun if you had your full kit. The mobs aren't designed to be against players with massive kits and the lack of mechanics would mean many skills just wouldn't be used, especially with the increased dps from major cds and ogcds resulting in things dying much faster. Adjusting the damage output isn't enough if a player has more buttons to press in a gcd than a player who is actually the lvl the content is intended for.

I don't find it particularly fun to have most of my kit wiped out, but I understand that low lvl content isn't balanced for veteran players, it's balanced for novices. So when I do content that is intended for a novice I expect to be faced with a situation that only a novice would find interesting. On the days in which I want more or my full kit I simply avoid putting myself into a situation that could land me in super low lvl content.

First impressions matter. As I said in my previous post had the dungeon content I did when I started FFXIV been a faceroll due to being matched up with higher lvl players blasting things with their huge kits then I would have left the game. Sure some sprouts may not know any better, but not every sprout is new to mmos, and many would be turned off by being unable to entirely avoid being boosted while using DF. Never mind how you don't need to be an experienced player to find being unable to learn your class to be frustrating because you're unwillingly getting carried.

And frankly I don't think anyone's desire to have their full kit in all content is a good enough reason to ruin the first impressions the game has on new players. If you want your full kit then do content that allows you to use it. That's not difficult to do.

[Xtrasweettea]

Concern trolling about possible DPS queue times.

Not my responsibility as someone who mains tanks and healers to make sure DPS queue times are short. I am not 2nd class citizen to DPS.

Allowing me to use my full level 80 skill set in Satasha is not going to make me queue for DR as a tank or healer. The current awards don't even make want to go into DR leveling, DR Trials, and DR 50/60/70 as a capped player.

The alternatives out there are better for EXP/hour or rewards.

SE is going to need to give the better long-term incentives those other DRs as a capped tank and healer main. Give me a reason to go into DR Trials where I spend more time in one Titania fight than a whole Expert Dungeon. Give me a reason to go into DR leveling where I end up out damaging the two DPS as a healer in Shisui of the Violet Tides. Give me a reason to go into 50/60/70 DR where it’s Keeper of the Lake for the 100th time and it’s more MP efficient for me to not raise the same DPS who keep dying to mechanics and to just keep casting damage spells.

Until better long-term incentives are provided, I will keep on doing DR Expert and alternative activities for things I need. That includes me using squads for low level dungeons to add seals to Wonderous tales… which a group of Rank 5 offensive squad members (1 MRD, 2 DPS… preferred rouge, archer, or arcanist), is faster than with real people.