A potential rework to the level-sync system.

[Awha]

If they were to do something like this I could see it for a full premade group that works via a toggle. Like a ilvl sync and level sync but allows to keep all their skills. Though I do not see the doing it across the board.

[GavynG]

I think this really needs to be done.

Nobody in this game's community would kick someone from their level-synced group who doesn't have all of their skills yet. The playerbase just isn't like this. It doesn't hurt at all to allow us to use all of our skills. In fact I rarely run level synced content anymore because I hate losing my skills.
Heck it might make new players become even more excited when they see the skills they'll be getting later on.

It's just silly. It's overthought. It needs to happen.

[kiagenwa]

Ok, so in the story of this game you went into Sastasha once at around level 15(and you might have gone back at level 50 for the remix). Your character didnt make a return trip, let alone potentially dozens of them via leveling roulette. You didnt have a reason to, the pirates were found out and driven away. The echo allows you to see memories and essentially relive them. So thats what all those duty roulettes are from a story perspective - youre re-living the original run you made at level 16. From a gameplay perspective, as has been covered, leveling roulette is a way to keep lower level content active so that new players can get their clears and continue the story. Their perspective is the one that matters, and you being exponentially stronger then them is seen as a bad thing. So you go at the same level they do - this will not change.

People trying to justify their POV then I forgot about Lore XD
So it's like we're reflecting our past actions through Echo and got exp for it.

On gameplay, I think removing high level skills make sense. Skills were there not only for damage/healing, but also for utilities.
While it may not go to the point where new players getting kicked for it, it will certainly feel different.

Also, don't forget that new players (to game/role) can be clueless on how to play their role (maybe not so when there's only 3-4 buttons, but things can get more complicated?). Getting them to witness veteran play will give them an idea how to effectively do it.

[Frizze]

Nobody in this game's community would kick someone from their level-synced group who doesn't have all of their skills yet. The playerbase just isn't like this.

I love this game, and i think our community is one of the best. If you truly believe no one would be kicked for this then bless your heart. You are either far too naive, or have far too much faith in your fellow players. People get kicked for having bad glamours, for annoying names, for extreme text macros, for excessive afk usage, for having bad internet, for role playing in chat, so that their friends can take the missing persons place, for being lalas, for not being lalas... for all sorts of reasons legitimate and otherwise. And people absolutely get kicked for playing poorly and making the group suffer. As has been outlined via math, the difference in power between you with all your skills and someone who doesnt have them is very large. In some cases, that one person being at level might mean the difference between an under 10 minute run and a 25+ minute one. More people then you think will sacrifice the newbie for those 15 minutes.

[Jirah]

Ugh this again. the game emphasis on its rotation makes it difficult to do and balance. perhaps in 50s 60s 70s sure if the levels were properly balance to do so as I honestly believe earlier dungeons are better than the tripe we are getting in 80s but not lower and not leveling cuz ya know there are leveling. Sastsha isnt bad because I don't have my whole kit its bad because its a introduction dungeon and It wont make it better just leaving newer players dazed and feel like they are audience much like Preatorium

[Hasrat]

Getting them to witness veteran play will give them an idea how to effectively do it.

Y'know, this argument keeps coming up, and honestly, I don't think I have ever in my many years of playing this game paid enough attention to what another player is doing to say "Oh, maybe that's how I should be doing it."

First of all, for every player the newbie may witness playing "effectively," they're just as (probably more) likely to be watching someone not being particularly effective/efficient.

Second, the new player experience is much more likely to be focused on what they are doing and trying their best, not so much on watching the rest of their party.

And third, anyone that has player effects turned off/reduced will pretty much almost never even know what the rest of the party is doing. The only time I've actually known to help anyone out with rotation is BLMs, usually in Stone Vigil, because you can see what they're casting at all times.

Besides, how's the new player going to learn to play "effectively" by watching veterans rolling with skills and rotations that the new player doesn't even have access to?

[Penthea]

Besides, how's the new player going to learn to play "effectively" by watching veterans rolling with skills and rotations that the new player doesn't even have access to?

Oh they'll just google "white sparkly attack white mage" and magically get instantly directed to a page that talks about Glare without much of any digging needed.

Stupid jokes aside, I have watched players and thought "oh, maybe I should try that" but this was long after the point of being a new player. This was when I recognised what the spells were because I had them already for quite a while so I was able to understand that they did take a different approach to me. Furthermore this is also when I was in the position of being able to pay attention to what someone else was doing. In fights that demanded a lot of my attention I didn't have much time to keep a close eye on many of the abilities someone else used.

And honestly even today, from a healer's perspective, I don't know what melee dps are doing a lot of the time because they rarely have castbars showing up in the party ui. I have to read their buffs and pay very close attention to their ability animations to figure out what they're up to. It's pretty easy to spot what casters are doing because they hardcast so much, but even then it's impossible to see everything because they also have instant casts and not all of them leave an effect behind like a dot.

Players learn best by the act of doing, and they learn best by learning their class gradually instead of jumping ahead several lvl brackets and trying to figure out how to use spells they don't even have yet. Sure some curious players do look up what classes can do in higher lvls, but in my experience I have only seen players who are not new to mmos do this frequently.

[GavynG]

I love this game, and i think our community is one of the best. If you truly believe no one would be kicked for this then bless your heart. You are either far too naive, or have far too much faith in your fellow players. People get kicked for having bad glamours, for annoying names, for extreme text macros, for excessive afk usage, for having bad internet, for role playing in chat, so that their friends can take the missing persons place, for being lalas, for not being lalas... for all sorts of reasons legitimate and otherwise. And people absolutely get kicked for playing poorly and making the group suffer. As has been outlined via math, the difference in power between you with all your skills and someone who doesnt have them is very large. In some cases, that one person being at level might mean the difference between an under 10 minute run and a 25+ minute one. More people then you think will sacrifice the newbie for those 15 minutes.

So you really believe your group would kick a newbie in Haukke Manor because they're not an all star?

I still have a hard time believing people would be this much of a dick to a sprout. Regardless of other reasons people have been kicked for in this game.

[ItMe]

So you really believe your group would kick a newbie in Haukke Manor because they're not an all star?

I still have a hard time believing people would be this much of a dick to a sprout. Regardless of other reasons people have been kicked for in this game.

Not my group, but I believe it would happen because I've seen people get kicked for less.
I've seen tanks get kicked for not sprinting.
I've seen healers get kicked for not DPSing.
I've seen people get kicked because they need to swap the batteries in their mouse.
People have been kicked for aything you can imagine.

[GavynG]

Not my group, but I believe it would happen because I've seen people get kicked for less.
I've seen tanks get kicked for not sprinting.
I've seen healers get kicked for not DPSing.
I've seen people get kicked because they need to swap the batteries in their mouse.
People have been kicked for aything you can imagine.

Wow, things must have really changed since I last played... If they have to keep the system in place I can live with it, but maybe the Vote to Kick system could change, too, to discourage it?