A potential rework to the level-sync system.

[GavynG]

I love this game, and i think our community is one of the best. If you truly believe no one would be kicked for this then bless your heart. You are either far too naive, or have far too much faith in your fellow players. People get kicked for having bad glamours, for annoying names, for extreme text macros, for excessive afk usage, for having bad internet, for role playing in chat, so that their friends can take the missing persons place, for being lalas, for not being lalas... for all sorts of reasons legitimate and otherwise. And people absolutely get kicked for playing poorly and making the group suffer. As has been outlined via math, the difference in power between you with all your skills and someone who doesnt have them is very large. In some cases, that one person being at level might mean the difference between an under 10 minute run and a 25+ minute one. More people then you think will sacrifice the newbie for those 15 minutes.

So you really believe your group would kick a newbie in Haukke Manor because they're not an all star?

I still have a hard time believing people would be this much of a dick to a sprout. Regardless of other reasons people have been kicked for in this game.

[ItMe]

So you really believe your group would kick a newbie in Haukke Manor because they're not an all star?

I still have a hard time believing people would be this much of a dick to a sprout. Regardless of other reasons people have been kicked for in this game.

Not my group, but I believe it would happen because I've seen people get kicked for less.
I've seen tanks get kicked for not sprinting.
I've seen healers get kicked for not DPSing.
I've seen people get kicked because they need to swap the batteries in their mouse.
People have been kicked for aything you can imagine.

[GavynG]

Not my group, but I believe it would happen because I've seen people get kicked for less.
I've seen tanks get kicked for not sprinting.
I've seen healers get kicked for not DPSing.
I've seen people get kicked because they need to swap the batteries in their mouse.
People have been kicked for aything you can imagine.

Wow, things must have really changed since I last played... If they have to keep the system in place I can live with it, but maybe the Vote to Kick system could change, too, to discourage it?

[BlitzAceRush]

Not my group, but I believe it would happen because I've seen people get kicked for less.
I've seen tanks get kicked for not sprinting.
I've seen healers get kicked for not DPSing.
I've seen people get kicked because they need to swap the batteries in their mouse.
People have been kicked for aything you can imagine.

And given people will kick for stuff like this, a system like this would make it so much worse, we've seen threads about big pulls vs small pulls, healers not dpsing, dps should stand in aoe's, anything and everything in the name of reducing a run by even a few seconds. But having a full team of 80's with their kits kept, we're starting to reach BLU levels of dungeon speed. If people will kick others for a few seconds/minutes off of a run, you can be assured they'll do it to shave 5-10 minutes.

[Deceptus]

. If people will kick others for a few seconds/minutes off of a run, you can be assured they'll do it to shave 5-10 minutes.

This is why SE needs to make to new players to certain content can't be kicked (especially dungeons). Would instantly fix that issue from happening.

[Penthea]

This is why SE needs to make to new players to certain content can't be kicked (especially dungeons). Would instantly fix that issue from happening.

No, I'm completely against this. Just because a player is new doesn't mean they won't cause problems. And I'm not talking about just performance. I've encountered some sprouts who used very colourful language when they ended up in a situation they didn't like. I rarely see toxicity when I use DF in this game, but I still think it's important for players to be able to remove someone who is making the instance unpleasant. Anyway getting kicked can also teach something. If a player knows they got kicked for a specific thing they did, they may be slow to do it again.

[Vahlnir]

This is why SE needs to make to new players to certain content can't be kicked (especially dungeons). Would instantly fix that issue from happening.

It wouldn't make the dungeon/tria/raid any faster or slower, and it wouldn't solve anything otherwise. How about no. Terrible, terrible idea. I'd rather not suffer through a piece of content while John/Jane Doe sits at the start AFK knowing they can't be kicked, because if something can be abused it most certainly will be.

[Deceptus]

It wouldn't make the dungeon/tria/raid any faster or slower, and it wouldn't solve anything otherwise. How about no. Terrible, terrible idea. I'd rather not suffer through a piece of content while John/Jane Doe sits at the start AFK knowing they can't be kicked, because if something can be abused it most certainly will be.

So which is it? Do we protect new players from veteran abuse, or do we let new players abuse other people?

If you're so sure that veterans WILL abuse the system, which for some reason so many do, then new players need protected.

Then you're going to say, that new players can't have that protection because they'll abuse it? It's nothing more than circular reasoning fallacy.

I really think people overestimate how often this stuff actually happens.

[Vahlnir]

So which is it? Do we protect new players from veteran abuse, or do we let new players abuse other people?

If you're so sure that veterans WILL abuse the system, which for some reason so many do, then new players need protected.

Then you're going to say, that new players can't have that protection because they'll abuse it? It's nothing more than circular reasoning fallacy.

We let the system as is because it's working as intended, and leave what abuse that can happen to the GMs to sort out. Neither side needs to be "protected". They both need to act accordingly. A system that doesn't play favorites is the best system when it comes to game moderation.

[Frizze]

I really think people overestimate how often this stuff actually happens.

I dont think anyone is saying this stuff happens all the time. Its between uncommon and rare at this point. But that doesnt mean that it isnt happening, and it doesnt mean we should make big sweeping changes that could make things worse. I have never initiated a vote kick for someone who was online, and have never voted to kick someone who didnt truly deserve it(including filling out the follow up report after they were removed a few times). Im 1000 times more likely to nope right out of the run and eat the penalty. I also know that i dont represent everyone. However, I do understand that making a class of people immune to being kicked would lead to problems just as much as giving people reasons to not want to play with newer players would lead to problems.