A potential rework to the level-sync system.

[Deceptus]

I have and always will think we should keep our skills while level synced. Perhaps even a box we can check just like min ilvl is selectable

1) Synced Weapon damage will normalize the damage at lower levels.
2) The content we are talking about is old, and outdated. Who honestly cares if we steamroll it?

Might a DPS pull aggro by blasting foul on a pack of enemies? Yes. Will they die from it? Maybe, maybe not. MAYBE they might learn some aggro management skills that have been lost over the last 6+ years.

In fact, one of the biggest complaints about keeping skills synced down is "What if a DPS goes ham and a tank is a sprout and doesn't have those skills?"

I would bet if we allowed tanks and healers to keep their skills synced down and the DPS to not keep them to avoid that exact scenario, DPS would be screaming to keep their skills.

I've been in numerous dungeons where the tanks were utterly incompetent and we still managed the run. Hell, I've tanked low level instances on my SCH PLENTY of times because of a sprout tank who for some reason didn't know aoe existed or never turned on their tank stance. Even after being asked to do it.

Low level instances are nothing more than DPS races anyway. If for some reason, you don't know how to properly play your job by Dzemael Darkhold, where most jobs should have a good deal of their kit, that's a you problem and quite honestly you simply need to play a bit better.

For those people who for some reason demand the challenge, minimum ilvl exists. Go find like minded people who share your goals.

[Hasrat]

1) Synced Weapon damage will normalize the damage at lower levels.
2) The content we are talking about is old, and outdated. Who honestly cares if we steamroll it?

1) oGCD weaving exists
2) Since the intent behind the design of the current sync system is to avoid steamrolling it, probably the devs would care.

[Intellion]

I have and always will think we should keep our skills while level synced. Perhaps even a box we can check just like min ilvl is selectable

1) Synced Weapon damage will normalize the damage at lower levels.
2) The content we are talking about is old, and outdated. Who honestly cares if we steamroll it?

Might a DPS pull aggro by blasting foul on a pack of enemies? Yes. Will they die from it? Maybe, maybe not. MAYBE they might learn some aggro management skills that have been lost over the last 6+ years.

In fact, one of the biggest complaints about keeping skills synced down is "What if a DPS goes ham and a tank is a sprout and doesn't have those skills?"

I would bet if we allowed tanks and healers to keep their skills synced down and the DPS to not keep them to avoid that exact scenario, DPS would be screaming to keep their skills.

I've been in numerous dungeons where the tanks were utterly incompetent and we still managed the run. Hell, I've tanked low level instances on my SCH PLENTY of times because of a sprout tank who for some reason didn't know aoe existed or never turned on their tank stance. Even after being asked to do it.

Low level instances are nothing more than DPS races anyway. If for some reason, you don't know how to properly play your job by Dzemael Darkhold, where most jobs should have a good deal of their kit, that's a you problem and quite honestly you simply need to play a bit better.

For those people who for some reason demand the challenge, minimum ilvl exists. Go find like minded people who share your goals.

Thank you very much for this. I share these exact sentiments, but you worded it much better than I could.


To be quite frank, people argue against this topic by bringing up balance, challenge, potential newbies getting discouraged, and so forth. However, what I actually observe in-game is the exact opposite of these claims.

1.) Balance? Even with levels, ilvls, AND skills currently getting synced down, older content is a mindless faceroll anyways. There is no more challenge whatsoever since even synced players are ridiculously strong, and whether they're veterans or sprouts, the common sentiment is that everyone just wants to get these old content over with in the first place; veterans just want to get out ASAP for the tomes, and sprouts just wanna get it over with ASAP to proceed with the story. Never once have I seen anyone, sprout or synced player, ever say things like, "Hey tank, can you please slow down? I wanna fully explore Copperbell Mines/proceed as originally intended" or something like that. And when you look at party finder and see sprouts or latecomers trying to get late clears of old content for the first time, what do you see? "Unsynced, please help me get my first clear," and not "Synced, I want to experience this as intended."

2.) Challenge? Same thing as balance, refer to #1

3.) Newbies getting discouraged by veterans unleashing flashy skills? What? That's the complete opposite of everything I've personally observed in all MMOs I've played since the early 2000s. In just about all MMOs I've played, including FFXIV, when newbies see veterans pulling off cool, endgame attacks and combos, they are more inspired by it rather than discouraged. It was the same in Maplestory when newbies aspired to reach high levels to pull off the cool stuff the pros are doing, and it's also the same in FFXIV, when sprouts thank me or get excited or even try to befriend me when I use my endgame AoE combos and such to one-shot mobs that the sprout didn't mean to aggro and almost overwhelmed them.

Based on my personal experience, if old content is going to be a mindless faceroll anyways, and both veterans and sprouts are just trying to get them over with ASAP for different reasons, then the only thing that letting veterans have their full kits in old content will do is to make old content less boring for them. Removing skill sync won't turn these old content into a faceroll if they're currently already a faceroll to begin with, IMO.


I mean, let's be honest. Just about most people would prefer braindead easy content where they get to use 24 skills as opposed to braindead easy content where they only get to spam two buttons over and over.

[Jojoya]

I have and always will think we should keep our skills while level synced. Perhaps even a box we can check just like min ilvl is selectable

1) Synced Weapon damage will normalize the damage at lower levels.

Not every action is a weaponskill that scales off weapon damage.

Standard Step says Hi. It's incredibly devastating at low levels, and that's just one example.

2) The content we are talking about is old, and outdated. Who honestly cares if we steamroll it?

Those who are new to the content and doing it for the first time? Those who want to see those new players having a good experience?

Making things too easy leads to boredom and negligence because there's no need to learn the most effective ways to use your abilities. Then you put the player into much more difficult content and they're in trouble because they've developed lazy habits.

If you don't like the current level sync system, don't do content that requires level sync. Stick to content your level, or do the content unsynced and solo/with friends. No one is going to object to you facerolling your way through The Vault solo.

[Mikey_R]

Not every action is a weaponskill that scales off weapon damage.

Standard Step says Hi. It's incredibly devastating at low levels, and that's just one example.

Weapon damage affects the damage of everything you do, not just weapon skills. This means an increase in weapon damage will also increase the damage of standard step etc.

The reason Standard step is so absurdly strong is because of its very very high potency for level 15. If we use Sastasha at level 15, the lowest level you can go into a dungeon and compare the potencies of abilities.

Dragoon's strongest skill is Vorpal Thrust at 350. Monk has a 200 auto Crit (call it 350 potency again, 1.5x crit damage to be generous), Ninja, Gust Slash 340, Samurai has Jinpu at 340 (call it 352 with the buff), I could go on.

However, Standard Step is a 1000 potency AoE attack with a 75% dropoff for the other enemies (so a 250 potency attack if I am interpreting the tooltip correctly) and it is only on a 30 second cooldown. This is close to 3 times as strong as a melee's strongest hit at the time. This is also the perfect example as to how quickly a level 80 toolkit will just decimate enemies.

Samurai's Tenka Goken is a 540 potency attack with no drop off, Dragoon has 600 potency Stardiver and 400 potency Nastrond and 300 potency Gieskogul, ninjas Mudras, Summoners incredible damage with DoTs, summons etc, BLM will melt things with flare and foul, the list goes on. Obviously, alot of these are just the raw potencies and do not take into account any buffs the jobs use.

[Kanosi1980]

I've played MMORPG's since 2001, but I've most recently played WoW. What I don't like about WoW leveling dungeons is that you blow through the trash without even executing a full rotation or feeling like you should blow any CD's. I like that in FF14 I can execute a full rotation multiple times before the trash dies, encouraging use of offensive and defensive CD's (if a tank).

Coming from someone who just lost sprout status, please don't nerf the dungeons. Part of what has made me useful in harder difficulties in raids and trials is having to learn mob and boss mechanics and practice my rotations and good CD use in leveling trials and dungeons.

[Intellion]

Not every action is a weaponskill that scales off weapon damage.

Standard Step says Hi. It's incredibly devastating at low levels, and that's just one example.


Those who are new to the content and doing it for the first time? Those who want to see those new players having a good experience?

Making things too easy leads to boredom and negligence because there's no need to learn the most effective ways to use your abilities. Then you put the player into much more difficult content and they're in trouble because they've developed lazy habits.

If you don't like the current level sync system, don't do content that requires level sync. Stick to content your level, or do the content unsynced and solo/with friends. No one is going to object to you facerolling your way through The Vault solo.

Again, as I've stated before, arguments like these would make more sense if said outdated content we're talking about were actually challenging with level and skill sync and actually required you to play optimally with level-appropriate rotations.

However, such a challenge doesn't even exist since synced veterans' ilvls still end up turning synced content into a brainless steamroll. The only literal difference will be that under the current system, veterans are spamming a few buttons over and over. With my suggestion, they at least get to use whatever skill they want to alleviate even some of the boredom. Would mobs die faster? Perhaps. But let's not fool ourselves here: with the current system, mobs already melt super fast anyways the moment synced veterans enter the fray.

So again, I'll dare point out that the thing that the no-crowd are trying to defend (balance/challenge in outdated content) doesn't even exist in the first place, so what exactly are they arguing for? With or without skill sync, said outdated content are brainless stomps anyways, so again, I say just let the veterans use all of their skills to at least alleviate some of their boredom and at least give them a sense of progression.

And again, no one is calling for the removal of level sync, only skill sync. Hence, I don't understand either why the no-crowd keeps throwing the "Don't do content that requires level sync" phrase. That completely ruins the point.

No, no one's asking for Lv. 80 powerhouses to be thrown into roulettes as is. We already have undersized parties for that. All we're asking for is to at least let us have fun gameplay-wise and allow us to use our full kit even when we are level-synced. Because let's be honest, even if you reach the endgame, most of this game's content will be synced (since most of the time, you'll be doing roulettes for tomes and money or older FATEs for relic stuff), and most of the time we don't even get to enjoy the Lv. 80 kits that we worked hard to attain.


And again, I'll dare to use the community itself to argue against the current system:

If the current skill sync that we have now is truly "healthy" for both the gameplay and the community, then why do most people turn it off via undersized parties when given the chance in Party Finder the moment the situation allows for it? If people truly enjoyed the "challenging" outdated content that we have now, then why do nearly all veterans AND sprouts just bumrush to the finish line instead of taking in the sights and exploring slowly and carefully? If players truly found forced skill sync so "engaging" in old content, then why do so many people play Blue Mage?

I don't know, but based on what I'm personally seeing in the community, I think the game will be far better off if we did away with forced skill sync on level-synced content.

[BlitzAceRush]

If the current skill sync that we have now is truly "healthy" for both the gameplay and the community, then why do most people turn it off via undersized parties when given the chance in Party Finder the moment the situation allows for it? If people truly enjoyed the "challenging" outdated content that we have now, then why do nearly all veterans AND sprouts just bumrush to the finish line instead of taking in the sights and exploring slowly and carefully? If players truly found forced skill sync so "engaging" in old content, then why do so many people play Blue Mage?

Just going to respond to this:
People's use of undersized has nothing to do with weather or not syncing is good or bad, the sync system is in place so people's first time through is as close to the ways the dev's intended as can be, undersized is there for someone to engage in content how they wish.
Your point also doesn't really stand up, you say "why do most people turn it off via undersized parties in party finder the moment the situation allows for it?" Well the situation allows for it right away, you could just clear everything unsynced your first time through, get some friends or randoms in party finder and clear your way to victory, mowing down everything with your full kit always. If what you say was true, the duty roulette would be empty and the party finder bursting with dungeon and normal mode parties ready to unsync their way through content.
However that's not the case at all, the duty finder is active and always popping while its rare to ever see a regular dungeon or normal mode trial in the party finder unless it's an unsynced farm or (ironically) BLU going in synced for the log/spells.

I've got everything at 80 and I'm fine with the system, is it a bit dull if I get a low level dungeon? Kinda but it really doesn't bother me too much, the only thing I'd change is letting all dps have some form of their aoe at lower levels, but otherwise I wouldn't want my full kit kept, because I know it would go one of two ways.
1: I'm putting in level 80 effort, but getting back level 24 results.
2: The level 24 might as well go make a snack because no matter how furiously they press those three buttons, they'll never keep up with me.

As for "It's not balanced anyway! Why bother!?" Just because something isn't perfect, doesn't mean you destroy it utterly, we're already too strong when synced down, the last thing they should do is make that worse.

[Jojoya]

If the current skill sync that we have now is truly "healthy" for both the gameplay and the community, then why do most people turn it off via undersized parties when given the chance in Party Finder the moment the situation allows for it? If people truly enjoyed the "challenging" outdated content that we have now, then why do nearly all veterans AND sprouts just bumrush to the finish line instead of taking in the sights and exploring slowly and carefully? If players truly found forced skill sync so "engaging" in old content, then why do so many people play Blue Mage?

Because they want to get their reward and get out as fast as possible from content they've already done dozens if not hundreds of times. Challenge has disappeared once you've done the content enough times.

Good job bringing up BLU because that's the best possible example of why skill sync is needed since BLU has no skill sync in any content.

It's okay for them to make that choice for themselves. It's not okay for them to make that choice for other players, especially when that's going to ruin the experience for new players doing the content for the first time. Most players like to feel their contribution means something when first doing the content. It's only once they've repeated it several times that they stop caring.

Low level content isn't there for your benefit. It's there for the benefit of players who are leveling and learning. Don't like the skill sync? Don't queue for low level content or roulettes that can put you into low level content. They don't offer any rewards that you can't get doing max level content outside of the dungeon specific gear and if you're after that, you're probably going to run it unsynced for speed repeats anyway. Stick to the Level 80 and Expert Roulettes.

[Deceptus]

Because they want to get their reward and get out as fast as possible from content they've already done dozens if not hundreds of times. Challenge has disappeared once you've done the content enough times.

Good job bringing up BLU because that's the best possible example of why skill sync is needed since BLU has no skill sync in any content.

BLU is a bad example because it's an apples to oranges comparison.

BLU's power comes in their ability to freeze enemies (trash) and then one shot them.

Otherwise, they're an under powered dps who has to cast 200 potency aoe (with dropoff). Go try to kill a group without ultravibration or any of the other one shot spells. It takes a bit to kill a pack.

If anything, it shows how keeping your skills CAN be done.

If one person is synced down from 80 an keeps their skills, the run will go faster. (if DPS)

If two people are synced down, the run will go really fast. (Especially if DPS), not so much if it's a tank and healer who are synced down.

If four people are synced down? Then no "newbie" is helped, you're doing old outdated content so again WHO CARES?

Just as an aside I want to mention this:

I routinely help people get their BLU spells Mind Blast and Glower. Those can be unsynced as the learn rate is 100%. I do this on my PLD.

Guess what?

I equip the ilvl 90 Curtana Nexus to kill the bosses and do you know why?

EVEN AT LVL 80 AN ILVL 90 ITEM CAN NOT ONE SHOT A LVL 15 BOSS WITH AUTO ATTACKS.

Now imagine what will happen when instead of the 53 damage Nexus weapon we have the 13 damage it would be synced down

I really think people are severely overthinking how powerful we are and how limiting weapon damage really is.