I give up, the bots win AKA: My flight is scheduled for departure

[xbahax92]

Except those who are only buying from the MB benefit from the bot activity because the bots are generally willing to sell substantially lower than a normal player is. People don't complain about having to pay less to get what they want.

It's the normal players who are selling on the MB that feel the negative impact because they are earning less gil.

Whether you call it "Voting with your wallet" or "making a 'higher' call ", it comes down to the same thing - a pointless gesture if you're trying to influence development. If you're unhappy, decide to make a change for your own sake and not because you think it's going to influence others. If players would do things because it's what they enjoy rather than doing them because they think it's what others expect them to do or they might be able to influence others by their choices, it would be easier for developers to figure out what players actually like.

Previous bot threads are lost, while this one is still lively and getting bigger attention. I think, even if it wasnt OP's intention, it still worked somewhat.
But either way, I wasnt supporting or defending his decision. I dont really care either, but the problems with bots are still the same and yes, earning gil by gathering and crafting becomes more and more pointless, doing leves nets you even more than crafting the newest green gear. I farmed gil this way too and it has become pointless where I stopped selling on market board as well.
Ofcourse people dont complain, but they also dont understand they're part of the problem. A botter isnt hoarding gil for himself, he is farming it to sell it for real currency, then the same people end up buying their own gil from him, just to spend it on the same bot who's offering lowest prices on various things.

[Jojoya]

A botter isnt hoarding gil for himself, he is farming it to sell it for real currency, then the same people end up buying their own gil from him, just to spend it on the same bot who's offering lowest prices on various things.

Here you touch on the core of the problem. Bots and RMT exist because there are players who demand their services. After all, why not when there is no penalty to the player for using the service? SE isn't going to ban their accounts.

The gaming industry is addressing the problem in the wrong way. Going after the service providers does nothing as long as there is real money to be made. Shut down one provider and another will appear to replace them because there are still players who will pay. You've got a revolving door that accomplishes nothing but waste time and money as you chase it in circles.

The gaming industry needs to go after the players creating the demand for those services instead. If the users started having their accounts banned, they're going to think twice about continuing to use the service. Is it worth losing everything and having to start over from scratch, having to pay for everything a second or third or fourth time? For most of those using the services, the answer would be no. They'll stop using the services so they can keep what they've earned on their accounts.

As demand for the service reduces, so does the presence of those providing the service. When demand drops low enough, the service disappears because they're not making enough money.

Fix the core problem - those who create the demand.

[Jijifli]

Here you touch on the core of the problem. Bots and RMT exist because there are players who demand their services. After all, why not when there is no penalty to the player for using the service? SE isn't going to ban their accounts.

I say ban both. But yes, the buyers really should be accountable for this too.

[Kes13a]

I say ban both. But yes, the buyers really should be accountable for this too.

I tend to agree. back before bots -really- became an issue in gaming, buying currency was stepped on pretty hard, as the gaming industry stepped back from this, the bots exploded. there is really a direct link back to the industry policies and they need to briong back harsher penalties for those who buy in game currency from third parties. if the company wants a piece of that, more power to them, they ARE the ones that should be profiting.

problem is, now they dont seem to go after anyone. period. and its harming the overall gaming experience.

[Nepentha]

Is it just me, or has there been a sudden blackout in some botting rings? Gone over the weekend entirely. They're back now, but still behaving oddly.

[ReynTime]

Is it just me, or has there been a sudden blackout in some botting rings? Gone over the weekend entirely. They're back now, but still behaving oddly.

I'm sure they'll be back in full force when 5.5 comes out.

[Malia_Chan]

Why do people have so many alts?

Most of the fun i've had in this game is playing a new alt on a different server. This happens a few weeks after a major patch. It revitalizes me. My main is maxed in everything. Game gets boring at that point.

[Jojoya]

Is it just me, or has there been a sudden blackout in some botting rings? Gone over the weekend entirely. They're back now, but still behaving oddly.

Probably had a local equipment or power failure they're recovering from if they're rings being run from the same location. Or could be SE made an undocumented hotfix to some game code the bot program relies on and the bot programmers are still trying to work out a counter to the change, causing the erratic behavior. The latter isn't likely unless the disruption was noticed across multiple worlds and data centers.

[Melichoir]

I tend to agree. back before bots -really- became an issue in gaming, buying currency was stepped on pretty hard, as the gaming industry stepped back from this, the bots exploded. there is really a direct link back to the industry policies and they need to bring back harsher penalties for those who buy in game currency from third parties. if the company wants a piece of that, more power to them, they ARE the ones that should be profiting....

Industries are motivated by profit. Them stepping back from it isnt likely cause "Ah we cant be bothered, even if it costs us millions in profits." Given the age of MMOs, there is likely a background reason were not privy too.

Furthermore, I would hazard a pretty good guess that bot numbers probably increased the more simplistic the game became. SEs approach to making all the low to mid tier casual content that requires no real input makes it far easier for bots to operate in that space. The harder//complex the content, the more difficult it is for bots to utilize it for profit.

...I can’t believe that someone that spends lots of time crafting and gathering their own mats isn’t making bank. You just aren’t able to dominate a market like you could before.

The crux of these discussions at times boils down to "Bots are making it hard for me to dominate the MB." It's not about "making the MB fair and workable for everyone", but rather eliminating the competition so that those already in a position to take over the Bot's share of the market can do so with ease and increase dominance. I doubt these threads would occur if bot activity was greatly limited to items and the like below level 30. This complaint tends to crop up when bots are competing at the higher end of the MB, where you can generate some big numbers by selling stuff. And who here wants to be real and acknowledge that if you were selling high end items on the MB, chances are a Gil-Buying-Player purchased it from you at some point in time. Youve probably made some profit in real numbers from bots indirectly, even if you werent the person buying the Gil. How quick people are to condemn gil Buyers but not acknowledge that they likely benefited from the practice in an indirect yet substantial way.

Lets say if we could get rid of bots once and for all forever, but it would require a hard reset on currency, essentially making ALL players start at 0 gil, I suspect there will be hesitation. That many who complain about bots would say "Well hold on a second, lets not be too hasty...".

Overstating the negative effects of bots while ignoring the potential benefits of them for the economy tends to make me believe this is the deeper motivation. Not that bots are good, but Ive been playing MMOs long enough to witness at times what happens when players control the market completely. It doesnt end up being paradise, it ends up being players with vastly disproportionate amount of wealth controlling price points on the MB.


If we want to be serious about eliminating bots, attacking bots directly is probably the wrong approach. It would be better to tackle Gil Sellers (thus making botting less and less cost effective), increase game complexity, make setting up accounts harder, and create an in game market force that competes with bots and players. But so long as the general feeling in threads like these is "Oh, SE so lazy, Bots are the root of all evil, this game sucks!", nothing is going to be addressed. Again, much of hte complaining seems more for catharsis than having real discussion.

[Kes13a]

Lets say if we could get rid of bots once and for all forever, but it would require a hard reset on currency, essentially making ALL players start at 0 gil, I suspect there will be hesitation. That many who complain about bots would say "Well hold on a second, lets not be too hasty...".

Overstating the negative effects of bots while ignoring the potential benefits of them for the economy tends to make me believe this is the deeper motivation. Not that bots are good, but Ive been playing MMOs long enough to witness at times what happens when players control the market completely. It doesnt end up being paradise, it ends up being players with vastly disproportionate amount of wealth controlling price points on the MB.


If we want to be serious about eliminating bots, attacking bots directly is probably the wrong approach. It would be better to tackle Gil Sellers (thus making botting less and less cost effective), increase game complexity, make setting up accounts harder, and create an in game market force that competes with bots and players. But so long as the general feeling in threads like these is "Oh, SE so lazy, Bots are the root of all evil, this game sucks!", nothing is going to be addressed. Again, much of hte complaining seems more for catharsis than having real discussion.

I have no problems restarting at zero gil if thats what it took to eliminate bots and cheaters.

I want to play against REAL people, if you pvp, do you prefer bots or people? seriously. its never been about cornering teh market or greed. I want the same playing field for everyone, not a job where to sell anything, I need to stand on the market 24/7 because thats the only way to sell when the bots are there.

not sure why the bot "supporters" are always saying its about greed, when the ones they are supporting are the greedy ones, not only in game, but for real currency as well.

that seems to be teh crux of most positions against people who dislike bots, "its okay for bots to be greedy, curse the real players and crafters, they deserve it"