The trust system is great, I hope it gets expanded

[Vickii]

Snip.

What exactly are you talking about? What reward is it you want that you can’t get?

Everything is attainable in this game and different styles of gameplay are given equally prestigious awards.

You just want to grind you can get a relic. You want to raid you can get a great weapon. They’re both pretty much on par. You want to do triple triad you can get the best umbrella, you want to do Eureka you can get some great glamours.

Are you saying you want the prize for completing savage/ultimate attached to everything else? Or that people who complete savage/ultimate should get nothing at all because you don’t personally do it?

I don’t do them either by the way so not one of the ‘elitists’ that you seem hung up on. Just think this is a ridiculous argument you have here.

[Vickii]

What exactly are you talking about? What reward is it you want that you can’t get?

Everything is attainable in this game and different styles of gameplay are given equally prestigious awards.

You just want to grind you can get a relic. You want to raid you can get a great weapon. They’re both pretty much on par. You want to do triple triad you can get the best umbrella, you want to do Eureka you can get some great glamours.

Are you saying you want the prize for completing savage/ultimate attached to everything else? Or that people who complete savage/ultimate should get nothing at all because you don’t personally do it?

I don’t do them either by the way so not one of the ‘elitists’ that you seem hung up on. Just think this is a ridiculous argument you have here.

Also btw... if you don’t do savage content, there is absolutely no need for you to have BIS gear at all. None whatsoever.

[Darkmoonrise]

[The length of this text is so absurd it is ridiculous, sorry about that]

what I say is absolutely not extreme

The very fact that you need to specify that your bold and underlined text is not extreme is already a good hint that it is. I said your saying are extreme, it's my job to explain/prove it, which I did in my previous message. If you want to counter that you'll need to attack those arguments, not just stating it.

Nobody wakes up one day and say: "Oh, I'm an extremist now". This is a slow process. You drift slowly in one direction without noticing it. From your point of view, you're always normal. Yesterday, when I explained you the white knight biggest problem, I did not expect you would have a mystical enlightenment. I just exposed you my point of view. It will take time for the seed to grow eventually.

You know, I don't speak about stuff I don't know. I was in your situation some years ago. A "powerful white knight defending the oppressed with my great wisdom". When I go back and read my message from that time, I'm always ashamed. It was pathetic, illogical, aggressive, argument less. The only thing I see is an absurd guy making as much noise as he can but achieving absolutely nothing positive. But then someone did to me, what I did to you yesterday. Explaining me why I was wrong. I smiled this morning when I read your answer because you have, in essence, the exact same reaction I had back in the day. You'll need time to understand and slowly drift back to a normal behaviour.

No pressure here, take your time. I'm not going to corner you and harass you until you admit you're wrong. First because this is the very thing I reproach you. And second because it will be useless. Not because you're right, but because you're blind to arguments and reality. Again, your sole ally here is time.

inventing imaginary bad players

I don't understand why you keep saying that. The fact that there are skilled and unskilled player is not a debate. The very fact that you try to defend the unskilled is a proof of that. Even you admit it indirectly. Everybody starts in the unskilled group. By putting the effort in, you change to the skilled group. This is especially true for a video game with simple mechanism and equal chances (IG). If you stop putting effort in, you go back to the unskilled.

people should have access to content and rewards they like and shouldnt be forced to do something they dont because the reward is locked behind it

No. If you want the rugby world cup trophy, you need to be the best team, there is no other way. You cannot go to the jury and say: "But I did great, the other in my team were bad, I deserve the trophy!" Unless you and your team are the best, you won't get this trophy.

But SE is already kind in this regard. First, because there is not only one trophy, everybody can get the trophy if they beat the content. Second, because those trophy exclusivities are limited in time. When a challenge is not current anymore, they open it to unsync and sometime even easier challenge allowing everyone to get it. It's like the kamuy you own. If I'm not mistaken (and sorry if I am), you bought it with the kupo memo, right? SE was kind enough to give you this reward even if you didn't beat the original content it was meant for. (If you actually did beat the ex synced at the time, just take me as an example, I got it by beating the fight in unsync).

the fact that letting people access rewards they like scared elitists

There is no fear involved here, only a sense of equality. "I did something you did not, why should you be rewarded as much as me?"

bragging rights are unhealthy and attract insecure people

Why is it unhealthy? Attracting insecure people… where? Attracting insecure people to overcome their fear and beat the hard content they could not before? And get pride out of it? Is that a bad thing? If someone is impressed by someone's achievement and want to improve themself to achieve the same great thing, it's a good thing. It's called inspiration.

Like a little girl seeing Marie Curie getting her Nobel prize. Mrs Curie fought her way to the top and got a prestigious reward for it. By seeing that, this little girl though: "Damn she's awesome, I want to do the same. Momy, Dady! I'm going to be a scientist!" And by becoming a scientist, she will inspire other little girl thus putting equity in the scientific world before owned by men only (Damm, this is so cliché, I known. However, it’s not wrong) (And I know we’re no there yet, which is a shame) This is how the world changes and improves.

What you propose is the exact opposite: Even if Marie Curie did something great, she doesn't deserve a reward because it could attract other people to get a reward as well. What you propose is to lower everybody to the lowest performance instead of encouraging people to do better.

By the way, if Marie would have said : "I've got a reward, I'm the best, you all suck" this would have been a big nono and would fall in the (5)th category and she should have been punished.

the species is still pretty deep in the dark ages so I cant expect much.

"Here comes the wise white knight, bringing you light in the shadow you, peasant, crawl in! Listen to him and follow his command if you want to see better days!"
Sorry, had to. This is such the perfect example to show you how ridiculous your position is.

And that is one of the many lies elitists tell themselves [...]

If I understood correctly, you say that what prevents you to get a reward is that you depend from other to get it. Thus, you want a solo way to get the reward. But on the other hand, you say that anybody can beat any content. You need to make a choice here.

• Either there is no challenge and the social part is not problem because anybody can do it.
• Or there are people who cannot beat a challenge, making it hard by definition. And, in this case, the social barrier is a thing.

It's either (hard content and social barrier) or (not hard content and no social barrier). It cannot be (not hard content and social barrier)

My, my because of course a [...] out is a little ironic.

Ironic, no. Pretentious, yes. And for the 5th group, it's because I was describing the worst outcome possible, so inevitably it's (5) yes. If you change your behaviour, yes you could end up in (4). And this is all I wish you.

And looks like the person who attempted to turn what I say against me had their post deleted but I will say this,

Well they were aggressive against you. And, even if I understand why, I also understand what the people in charge did. As Voltaire didn't say (he didn't actually say it, it's just a popular myth) "Je ne suis pas d’accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu’à la mort pour que vous ayez le droit de le dire" ("I don't agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death so that you have the right to say it"). Don't get me wrong, I still think they are in the right and you are in the wrong.

simply look at what I am standing for, and what elitists are standing for.

You're again falling for the straw man problem and mixing (4) with (5). What is happening is you fighting a none existing enemy (or targeting the wrong people) and when you get an answer saying that your war makes no sense, you interpret it as your enemy fighting back and not understanding your point. A little bit like Don quichotte.

WoW stuff

I didn't and don't play WoW, not going to speak about something I have no clue about.

If you feel the latter are on the right, your choice, I ve said what needs to be said.

Thanks for this discussion. I also said what I had to, and hope time will make you understand my point of view. I did exactly what I described to you. I saw someone in need of help, I talked to him, I tried to understand him, and I tried to advise him. Or her, I don't know (and don't care). Maybe I failed to plant the seed, maybe not, but I did what I could. Wish you all the best and hope you'll find a way to get rid of the anger.

P.S. You brought up the "cease fire" first and I responded, putting you in disadvantage. If you want to respond you'll need to break your words. I won't attack you on that if you decide to respond, so feel free to do it if you feel it's necessary. We can also continue this in private if you want, putting out social pressure at the same time. I would say that continuing this in the public domain is a little bit ridiculous at this point.

[ICountFrom0]

You can die in savage either.
It just depends when.

If its during a big downtime it doesn't matter. It's only when a mechanic requires 8 people that you have to be alive or it can snowball into a wipe.
But you still can make mistake, the windows is just more tight.

And yet, you make my point for me. Maybe 3 is a spectrum, but everybody has a cap that is the best they will ever be.

Not everybody can get a perfect clear of TouHou 15. It's the exact same techniques needed to pass #7, you just have to be better at them.

Ex has very little that isn't somewhere in regular. Savage might have one new thing in each, but it's not impossible to learn it. Ultimate.... *shrug* how would I know?

I can learn the mechanic needed in a given savage, but I'm just not consistantly good enough to pass them. I also feel like I hit my cap and I'm just not going to get better.

[MrPresident]

I loved it up until I finished the story and they reset everyone’s level. I enjoy being able to do a chill run with NPCs now and then, not enough to need to do the ridiculous amount of grinding required to level them up again though.

[Ralph2449]

I loved it up until I finished the story and they reset everyone’s level. I enjoy being able to do a chill run with NPCs now and then, not enough to need to do the ridiculous amount of grinding required to level them up again though.

Didnt they buff the xp rates? I heard it was insufferably slow at launch to level them but now they received some sort of xp boosts that made that way faster.

[Mahoukenshi]

Didnt they buff the xp rates? I heard it was insufferably slow at launch to level them but now they received some sort of xp boosts that made that way faster.

I don't know the old xp rates per dungeons, but currently you need to run each dungeon but Mt Gulg 10 times to max all your trusts: One group with you as DPS à 5 dungeons, and the other group with you as tank.