Tools they could add besides DPS meters... (For endgame)

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I like how you say this when your long rant is full of attacks, digs and insults towards the "elitists". It's basically the definition of toxic.

That's because it's a troll we're dealing with. I'd say it's safe to assume to just move on and discuss accordingly.

[Raelsar]

That is my main point really, I am not saying that pandering to X elitist idea/mentality/system Ff14 will instantly turn into WoW, that won’t happen overnight, but when such ideas are accepted and embraced through time it will turn into a toxic elitist mess.
thankfully it seems the devs also understand that and have WoW show them what happens when you focus on high end at the expense of everything else so I do feel safer but that doesn’t mean I ll be complacent and trust that will remain so forever hence vigilance is important.

So when I notice an elitist mentality/argument, like the ones only us ‘elites’ deserve’ good rewards and they shouldn’t be accessible to others I will absolutely fight against it because tolerating such elitist ideas is a slippery slope that will turn the game toxic after a while and like the community has proven, the best way to stop elitism is to stop it early from growing deep roots no matter how much they complain about the invented toxic casualism to look like the victims.

While I can certainly understand the sentiment, you do seem to be getting a bit too caught up in your own furor to go after the elitists... and at the moment, it seems you're being more counterproductive to your own efforts rather than furthering them.

And believe me, I've been exactly where you are right now. You've had far too many elitist jerks to deal with over the years, so you're eager to pounce at the slightest hint of elitism in self-righteous fury. Trying to do the right thing, but how you're going about it is just not helping the situation.

The one thing to remember about elitists is that they require validation, attention and acknowledgement of their perceived superiority; almost by definition. After all, how can one be "elite" is no one else cares? Direct criticism only serves to reinforce this, as in their mind, it's acknowledging their strength and they will twist any argument into an attack or attempt to steal what they jealously guard.

Deny them the validation they crave... which I'll admit is easier said than done, especially in the heat of the moment.

I don't think ignoring them is the best approach, but negating their egos might be. Downplay their attempts at grandstanding. Don't try to minimize their accomplishments, as they could perceive that as an attack and will twist it to their own ends; just gently chide them for letting it go to their heads. On the other side of the spectrum, try things like downplaying your own successes and placing more emphasis on the successes of the group. Be the anti-thesis to elitist behaviour. I'm still working out the kinks of the theory here of how to properly deal with it, but that should give you an idea.

But yes, don't get caught up in your own furor. Elitists crave validation, and unfortunately raging at them is giving them exactly what they want.

[Ralph2449]

The one thing to remember about elitists is that they require validation, attention and acknowledgement of their perceived superiority; almost by definition. After all, how can one be "elite" is no one else cares? Direct criticism only serves to reinforce this, as in their mind, it's acknowledging their strength and they will twist any argument into an attack or attempt to steal what they jealously guard.

Deny them the validation they crave... which I'll admit is easier said than done, especially in the heat of the moment.

I don't think ignoring them is the best approach, but negating their egos might be. Downplay their attempts at grandstanding. Don't try to minimize their accomplishments, as they could perceive that as an attack and will twist it to their own ends; just gently chide them for letting it go to their heads. On the other side of the spectrum, try things like downplaying your own successes and placing more emphasis on the successes of the group. Be the anti-thesis to elitist behaviour. I'm still working out the kinks of the theory here of how to properly deal with it, but that should give you an idea.

But yes, don't get caught up in your own furor. Elitists crave validation, and unfortunately raging at them is giving them exactly what they want.

You arent wrong, it is quite easy to get carried away, especially when you know that is their central source of insecurity so they will react extremely aggressively since in a sense I am denying like you said their perceived superiority and eliteness upon which their self worth is based.

I am honestly not certain either if there's a solution to an elitist mentality that doesnt involve months of extremely friendly and painfully positive therapy level talk because humans cannot simply rearrange their core belief system no mater how wrong it might be in any small amount of time.

Negating their egos is definitely a task that is pretty hard, especially as a random forum poster though that is why I ended up really liking the idea of trust system and imagined a possible expansion of it that would lead to high end content as a form of solo challenge by having it tuned that in order to be beaten it would require perfect mechanics and decent dps performance, if that were ever to be true we would see countless casuals, solo players and those people they demean(By implying they are bad because they havent done high end content) beaten their precious high end content and getting those rewards.


Suddenly the one thing they hold above all others vanishes and they will be forced to finally accept that the real challenge and actual difficulty of high end group content is finding the right people aka the social barrier many dont want to bother with, not their l33t performance they obsess over, alas that is something that the devs would need to do, not me.

Though the general principle would be something that proves that those casual solo players arent the terribad, low skilled, lazy, incompetent people and other generalizations they throw around but unless trusts get expanded I am absolutely certain they will always demean solo achievements as inferior to their group achievements even when the personal skill required in those achievements might be higher.