Tools they could add besides DPS meters... (For endgame)

[Ralph2449]

XIV has a HUGE "toxic/entitled casuals" issue and probably the worst skill: playtime ratio you're gonna see in any video game only because the game doesn't teach anything about jobs, basic competency isn't required to progress through MSQ and people are coddled into not just mediocrity, but down right vegetable-levels of play. And because skilled players are not okay with that in content designed for them, they have existential issues?

The amount of entitlement, belief that casuals are terribad and you are skilled is so great in just that sentence of yours.

Thanks for proving my point i guess xD

[ZedxKayn]

The amount of entitlement, belief that casuals are terribad and you are skilled is so great in just that sentence of yours.

Thanks for proving my point i guess xD

I mean weren't you saying that people good at the game should know that they are? What point are you trying to make now?

Yes, the majority is bad at the game, because the game offers no tutorial, there is no shame in that (well to an extent at least, until they become toxic about it), but there is shame in coming in high end content unprepared and feeling entitled to a clear. But you don't even have any PF experience, I'm not sure anymore why I'm wasting time trying to argue with someone who genuinely don't know what they are talking about.

[Colt47]

The amount of entitlement, belief that casuals are terribad and you are skilled is so great in just that sentence of yours.

Thanks for proving my point i guess xD

Actually, the thing he is pointing out is the technical debt from having the game run for so long. Think about it: Every time they add content and do a new expansion, they redesign the game systems to keep it fresh and mothball the last expansion. Sure, if you are only one expansion in, the last expansions content isn't too hard to manage, but then you go to the third, and now there are two historic sets of content that need retooling. Then you go to the fourth, the fifth, etc.

It is absolutely predictable that the content before the current expansion would no longer serve the purpose of teaching people their jobs. The content is literally no better than a training dummy that offers no hints, and often the dummies don't have enough HP to go through a full rotation.

The only way they can fix the "learn the job" part is to simplify the dps jobs down and have the learning tools be a component of the job itself. Bard and Ninja are horrible to level jump because they lack some of these tools, or they are built into quests that accompany them. The jobs that have the best learning tools are the fixed rotation jobs (think Samurai, Dragoon, Blackmage, Warrior, Redmage, etc). The other problem is that they merged aesthetics with mechanics on the jobs: Yoshi P. even said he would never made the weapons a component of the class itself. There's no reason a bard couldn't use a handgun, or a warrior couldn't opt for a shield and sword.

This is also why I think SE might have a hard time with adding learning tools to savage in-game. I had other ideas for what they could try, but it has to be something that can work with what is already there and easily thrown in, like a learning mode that can reveal the zones a boss targets with an ability. Or hints on what the ability does when the party wipes.

[Ralph2449]

Actually, the thing he is pointing out is the technical debt from having the game run for so long

You dont use the words he did to describe that problem nor you take ownership of specific content as "yours".

What you are explaining on the other hand I understand, the thing is that happens in almost all big mmorpgs for the reasons you mentioned.

My argument on that subject is that people who care about improving for their personal sake will still do either way, people who are interested in improving always do no matter what the tutorial tells us(Which is why the "if they listened to you everyone would be so bad they couldnt get through dps checks" argument is so flawed), people who are not interested in improving because they have no reason to since the content they do can be done easily wont care either way and will ignore the imagined tryhard tutorial until they get in a situation that pushes them improve, such situation being the higher end content which can be accessed by all, and in these situations these people do improve which again ruins the repeated generalizations elitists have thrown in just this thread about that iconinc ultra bad casual that is so bad and low skilled they cant do anything right.

And again I ll have to repeat the point that what matters is the minimum requirements set by the devs(not the inflated requirements send by a bunch of elitists who try to get a roflstomp group going), in a realistic group you ll always have a few players who personally care about their performance and some that dont, that group still perseveres either because the good players were that good that they were able to play well enough to carry the group performance or because the people that didnt care ended up improving in order to beat the encounter.

At the end what comes down to is that some people are allergic to wiping or helping others without an elitist commanding attitude and I am seeing that as their problem, if they cant handle that they should stick to their static that exists to roflstomp content.

That is the thing one does not have to pug

Ah yes the just "find decent friends m8" argument, if it was so easy people wouldnt be complaining about pugging since ages now, especially in a community so divided where you wont be finding many players in the middle, though I know elitists like Preach "You gotta be trolling to be playing non meta" gaming do honestly believe they are really nice and friendly people, just like a bunch of jerks together might consider each other real great dudes. What matters is how outsiders perceive you, not your buddies in this case.

why the beef over a meter that will allow the community to hold others accountable?

Because when a community is ignorant, elitist, tryhard metaslave, they are wrong, they negatively affect people around them, degrade the experience for players and in general, wrong things should be stopped and fought against whenever they affect you or not.

[Colt47]

This is why I prefer it to have more DPS in a group than the minimum number they specify in this game when it comes to harder content. Efficiency will always be there, but hey, if someone can make it easier by bringing more bodies in, it opens up the challenge and lets others who may not have the ability to do so get items. At the very least people who do the savage content in the larger group get a book per run.

I would say given how they work right now they should go up to 8 DPS, for a total group size of 12. Any higher than that and DPS checks would be laughable. Even two really mediocre dps are going to out gun a single pro dps.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

The fact how the arguments in the past 2-3 pages are still going on is incorrigible...
————————
Anyhow, to stay on topic...
I’d love for them to add a tooltip that allows us to peek what mobs/chests can drop. Like a loot list. Sure we have an external database but an in-game list should be a nice addition.
And then specifically for CLL, an NPC to tell players when next CLL will pop because the shout chatbox is littered with “CaStRuM!?!!!?” Heck, make an entirely different window that stays permanent inside BSF specifically to tell whether a CLL is on-going or not if possible, because apparently clicking one single button to check CLL availability is harder than typing a whole phrase and waiting for answer.

[Colt47]

The fact how the arguments in the past 2-3 pages are still going on is incorrigible...
————————
Anyhow, to stay on topic...
I’d love for them to add a tooltip that allows us to peek what mobs/chests can drop. Like a loot list. Sure we have an external database but an in-game list should be a nice addition.
And then specifically for CLL, an NPC to tell players when next CLL will pop because the shout chatbox is littered with “CaStRuM!?!!!?” Heck, make an entirely different window that stays permanent inside BSF specifically to tell whether a CLL is on-going or not if possible, because apparently clicking one single button to check CLL availability is harder than typing a whole phrase and waiting for answer.

Yeah it would be helpful to have those as well. They don't really have tooltips on the loot.

[Awha]

You dont use the words he did to the words he did to describe that problem nor you take ownership of specific content as "yours".

What you are explaining on the other hand I understand, the thing is that happens in almost all big mmorpgs for the reasons you mentioned.

My argument on that subject is that people who care about improving for their personal sake will still do either way, people who are interested in improving always do no matter what the tutorial tells us(Which is why the "if they listened to you everyone would be so bad they couldnt get through dps checks" argument is so flawed), people who are not interested in improving because they have no reason to since the content they do can be done easily wont care either way and will ignore the imagined tryhard tutorial until they get in a situation that pushes them improve, such situation being the higher end content which can be accessed by all, and in these situations these people do improve which again ruins the repeated generalizations elitists have thrown in just this thread about that iconinc ultra bad casual that is so bad and low skilled they cant do anything right.

And again I ll have to repeat the point that what matters is the minimum requirements set by the devs(not the inflated requirements send by a bunch of elitists who try to get a roflstomp group going), in a realistic group you ll always have a few players who personally care about their performance and some that dont, that group still perseveres either because the good players were that good that they were able to play well enough to carry the group performance or because the people that didnt care ended up improving in order to beat the encounter.

At the end what comes down to is that some people are allergic to wiping or helping others without an elitist commanding attitude and I am seeing that as their problem, if they cant handle that they should stick to their static that exists to roflstomp content.


Ah yes the just "find decent friends m8" argument, if it was so easy people wouldnt be complaining about pugging since ages now, especially in a community so divided where you wont be finding many players in the middle, though I know elitists like Preach "You gotta be trolling to be playing non meta" gaming do honestly believe they are really nice and friendly people, just like a bunch of jerks together might consider each other real great dudes. What matters is how outsiders perceive you, not your buddies in this case.


Because when a community is ignorant, elitist, tryhard metaslave, they are wrong, they negatively affect people around them, degrade the experience for players and in general, wrong things should be stopped and fought against whenever they affect you or not.

Never said it was easy, just an option. I play feral if I pugged I would be asked to play balance. So I found a group that is cool with me playing feral and we still push for keys perfectly fine.

I get you are in a disagreement with min / maxing but your stance is not an objective truth you may feel it is wrong and you are entitled to that opinion. Though if I may ask what is wrong with holding the community to a higher standard of play or providing the player base with a tool to hold others accountable? This at the core is not inherently toxic nor does it necessarily lead to meta driven community like you appear to claim it will. The meta mindset is also fueled by the balance approach of blizzard and their encounter design. In FFXIV classes at the core more or less the same functionally within their roles that I doubt it would go back to the way this were back in HW. That said just because content can be cleared with every job does not mean not giving players the tools to hold others accountable is toxic. This is a team game first and foremost at least when it comes to clearing content and by no means does being new or playing for fun mean it is fair to the rest of the group when you have a dps doing 10% of the total damage cause they cannot be bothered in 4 man content.