Tools they could add besides DPS meters... (For endgame)

[Dzian]

Content is meant to be done because it is fun and you enjoy it, not purely because of the rewards and the delusion of "prestige" to help with your self esteem issues, sadly gamers often have self esteem issues and get hooked into the feeling of "I got this special reward cuz I did this elite thing" which leads to incredibly obnoxious people that turn the community toxic.

So absolutely NO, rewards should be available to all and people should get them cuz they like them, not for the reasons I mentioned.

You're going into the realm of Intrisinc vs Extrinsic motivation here, and seem to have the opinion that extrinsic motivation is not fun. In so much as hating your day job I may agree.

But extrinsic motivators can and more often are a lot of fun and enjoyment for many people. This is true with many hobbies or pattimes.. You can play soccer.. Intrinsicly just have a bit of a kick around with your friends in the local park for a laugh. Or extrinsicly form a team for a local league or tournament with the aim to win that cup or trophy. Doesnt suddenly mean its not fun to take part in.

Arguably with the age of the internet extrinsic motivators are a bigger driving force than ever. With many people seeking fame or other forms of recognition for everything they do.. From how many likes your recent facebook selfie got. to how many followers you have on twitch or subscribers on youtube etc etc.

I personally have a hobbie of flying model helicopters and airplanes and while I often fly them just for fun. I also push myself to be better at it because I sometimes enter flying competions win a few trophies or even get hired to do arial photography, and there's a great deal of fun and satisfaction in winning a trophy or taking that perfect photo..

Video games are no different. Extrinsic motivators are often a great deal of fun and incredibly satisfying...

Intrinsic fun is often pretty shallow and short lived by comparison. In a way you can see this in xiv with the way in which it makes everything ridiculously easy to obtain.. a new player today might go and get the pony mount from ifrit today and have fun riding it around today... tomorrow though it'll probably be forgotten about and never used again.... already bored of it because theres no extrinsic value associated to it.

Another example Mobile gaming.. Mobile games are often designed to be simple and heavily intrinsic. but the result of that is they come and go very very quickly.. download it today play it on the train home.. uninstall it 2 or 3 days later already bored of it... Which is why many are so in your face with microtransactions because if they dont get your money in the first 48 hours they never will.

[Ralph2449]

arguably with the age of the internet extrinsic motivators are a bigger driving force than ever. with many people seeking fame or other forms of recognition for everything they do.. from how many likes your recent facebook selfie got. to how many followers you have on twitch or subscribers on youtube etc etc.

All of them being quite dangerous, unhealthy and lead to formation of delusions which are kind of a bad thing that should be avoided which that leads to the topic of companies deluding people and making them feel better by telling them how great they are for achieving basic tasks which they assist the player via visual clues he often is not even aware in exchange for money which once again leads to delusions which are a bad thing but hey to company made their money which is their true goal. You see fun is not as subjective as some like to believe, the reason you are enjoying something can be ascertained and judged whenever it is healthy or good, as well as the consequences of said "fun" has to people around them.
I am sure a person with self esteem issues loves playing a broken class that can 2-3 shot other players in pvp though that is wrong because 1) he doesnt deserve the feeling of victory because he is abusing a broken class and thus his feeling of "fun" shouldnt justifiably happen yet it still happens no matter how wrong that is, 2) this hurts the people around him which in turn makes a community worse.

This game is far superior to WoW in my eyes exactly because it doesnt force people into things they dont like for the rewards, it doesnt rush people, it doesnt force them to deal with an incredibly toxic, elitist and tryhard community, and considering it is doing really well sub wise I am feeling the game has the right direction, because we have WoW to see what happens when the systems you suggest are embraced. (Though I will agree that the predatory, manipulative, elite achievement focused game like WoW is far more profitable because it pushes people to buy tokens for carries and keeps people with self esteem issues hooked to the feeling of being "elite", but like everyone should know by now very well, profitable=/=good game)

So yeah, I think if people want an achievement focused elitist mess, they should absolutely try out WoW, if they want a fun video game that exists to be enjoyed as a whole world rather than hook you via manipulative practices, FF14 should be their choice.

And based on recent mmo population data, FF14 has only been increasing in sub numbers consistently so this casual approach seems to also be pretty successful, especially with many people probably coming from WoW's ultimate tryhard xpac that is shadowlands where they doubled down in the achievement focused gameplay you seem to be fond of.

[ZedxKayn]

snip

Why are you constantly saying that people who want to be rewarded for their efforts, or who don't want to play with people not as good as them, are elitists with their ego solely tied to video games? Did an elitist hurt you in the past?

Do you understand that for some people, outdoing themselves and having something to show for it is FUN?

Besides what's the shame in feeling good for having something to show that you're doing better than the rest?

Why are people elitist for not wanting to drag dead weights to the finish line? Why would people incapable of achieving something be entitled to the rewards of said thing?

You can say "it's a video game and video games are supposed to be fun" all you want, do you think about the fun of the people doing the carrying when you say that?

There is no shame in not having the level for savage and ultimate content, but people who don't want to take the time to learn how to play better are not entitled to the same rewards as people who studied their jobs and encounters (yes studying these can be fun) and I hope it stays that way.

[Vahlnir]

or who don't want to play with people not as good as them, are elitists

That itself is the very definition of elitist, but that doesn't automatically make them a jerk. It's all about the personality of the person. What some don't understand is that someone can be an elitist without being a horrible person. The rest of the post...eh, debatable I guess. But on this they are not wrong.

[Dzian]

That itself is the very definition of elitist, but that doesn't automatically make them a jerk. It's all about the personality of the person. What some don't understand is that someone can be an elitist without being a horrible person. The rest of the post...eh, debatable I guess. But on this they are not wrong.

Subjective... It's also about both people not just the good one dubbed the elitist but the bad one too.

If a good player doesn't want to play with a bad one You can't just dub them elitist or toxic. or anyother buzz word..

I'm not the best player in the world. but if I'm in a duty with someone whos a dead weight and playing badly and I try and offer help and advice and get that thrown right back in my face.. how am I the toxic one or the elitist if I then decide I don't want to waste my time and play with them?

Many would argue its the other player whos the deadweight and the toxic one as there attitude and behaviour is detrimental to the whole party and dragging everyone else down with there you dont pay my sub mentallity... that is toxicity.

It's a fairly common thing if you read around good players often try and offer worse players help and advice only to either be ignored or have it thrown in there face. you can't then fault them for leaving or not wanting to play with those people