Tools they could add besides DPS meters... (For endgame)

[Ralph2449]

The whole reason "Skip Soar or disband" became a meme is basically it was laughably east to skip. It literally required a basic opener because Zurvan does nothing. There aren't any mechanics to worry about by that point in the fight. If you understood the basic functions of your job, you'd skip Soar. Therefore, groups unable to skip weren't able to perform at that minimal a level. It isn't elitism to expect reasonable levels of damage in harder content.

Reasonable*=See inflated

I wasnt talking about soar, I was talking about flare star which is why I mentioned p1, that phase that literally lasts for less than a minute, I was in a group with a tryhard who unironically complained about the placement as if he was in some static tryhard group, it was a pug and it was not something that caused anyone problem and there was more than enough safe space to move to, he just complained because it wanst that perfectly stacked flare star IN A PUG.

So no it wasnt about a dps check, it was just a delusional tryhard who for some reason expects people to have done the fight in some l33t group a million times before and follows their l33t strat at all times cuz of course everyone must have done that fight when it was current.

And you show your elitism by literally what you said, the devs did not intend for soar to always be skipped else it wouldnt exist, it is a mechanic that exists to be done, by saying everyone should skip it or disband, it means you expect everyone to have performance above what the encounter actually requires which is chosen by the devs, therefore you have falsely inflated the requirements for that content which results in elitism and gatekeeping.

But it's okay because the group can still clear, right?

Yes, when the content has generous checks and even allows for mistakes so you can still clear after that then it is okay, the world didnt end, someone just didnt play well, instead of being offended by the fact not everyone is a tryhard maybe you should have felt better for yourself for having above average performance to get everyone through, I am starting to think this western mentality that seems to be repulsed by anyone underperfoming comes for the delusional "pull yourself up from your bootstraps" meme since it is the same thing but for irl.

That is what frustrates players.

Maybe players shouldnt be playing a game if they cant have fun without expecting people to be on their already INFLATED level, this is a video game, not a job, not something you do to please others and definitely not something that your self worth should depend on.
If you are frustrated cuz someone is learning or is new, you are the problem for having severely unrealistic and false expectations and that is on you, if you treated this like a video game you wouldnt be having such problems.

[Rilifane]

I love how in these discussions it's never okay to expect basic competence but completely fine to put additional pressure on the rest of the party.
If someone is barely performing at the required level, then happens to "just not play well" and drop even lower, requiring the rest of the party to make up for it that's completely fine, world didn't end, so what, don't be elitist and mention it.
If someone had to play at a much higher level to make up for the above mentioned, they better keep quiet and don't they dare feel frustrated by it. Damn elitist. Just feel blessed that you had the opportunity to carry others. Give yourself a silent pat on the back but keep your head down.

[Kaurhz]

I love how in these discussions it's never okay to expect basic competency but completely fine to put additional pressure on the rest of the party.
If someone is barely performing at the required level, then happens to "just not play well" and drop even lower, requiring the rest of the party to make up for it that's completely fine, world didn't end, so what, don't be elitist and mention it.
If someone had to play at a much higher level to make up for the above mentioned, they better keep quiet and don't they dare feel frustrated by it. Damn elitist. Just feel blessed that you had the opportunity to carry others. Give yourself a silent pat on the back but keep your head down.

I sense a certain level of sarcasm with this post.

People have largely had an overinflated sense of competency requirements for the fight they're completing, so yes, that is not ok. If someone is not performing, or barely performing at the minimum requirement that the duty expects then that is a different matter entirely. Equally, people seem to be under the impression that someone playing subpar puts other players where they're in a position that they can show indecent behavior in reaction to the matter- Is silently kicking a player, leaving the party, and/or linking a discord resource for people to look at really that challenging for a lot of players before sliding out? Nobody likes the player that interjects with counterproductive nonsense with no other purpose than to disparage, as much as they do players failing to meet some arbitrary competencies.

[Ralph2449]

I love how in these discussions it's never okay to expect basic competency but completely fine to put additional pressure on the rest of the party.

What I would define as basic competency is the minimum required performance by everyone to beat an encounter which is often quite forgiving and this is chosen by the devs, not the inflated requirements players choose to spout to both inflate their egos and also get easier runs, and as proven by the previous poster I replied to they dont expect basic competency, they expect above basic competency so they can skip mechanics and have an easy roflstomp because god forbid they have to do the encounter normally or wipe because someone is learning, that is the worst thing evah, everything should be a roflstomp xD

Just feel blessed that you had the opportunity to carry others. Give yourself a silent pat on the back but keep your head down.

Exactly because people who dont suffer from self esteem issues know where they stand and they dont require the game or others to congratulate and reward them to make them feel special and "elite". You helped someone and you should be satisfied with that.

[Saefinn]

I think a little of column A and a little of column B. Whilst you can set certain requirements and expectations in a PUG, you'll likely always have to account for varying levels of understanding & experience. There's a level of rolling the dice. But I do think it'd uncool if say a PF said "must be able to do 'x'" or "must be up to 'y'" and you join despite not meeting that requirement, because there are varying levels of progression and some groups are further along than others and people might be going for certain strats.

But of course there is a disadvantage to using PF and forming PUG's, you have less quality control, and I think it's better to accept than fight it (maybe help people improve rather than disparage and maybe they'll pay it forward), because hey, those people want to clear content too and they're using the right tools to do it and some legitimately want to get better at it. There is a bit of a jump in difficulty between normal content and EX or Savage. Case in point, I played AST like a pseudo-WHM or pseudo-SCH until I took it into Misera and found I wasn't playing AST correctly, because it had been fine until that point, so my heals and damage output was low until I corrected it. Prior to that, I had only used SCH or DNC.



Expecting a tighter ship however, this I feel is more the benefit of a static, because you have the consistency of players for a start and also you can vet a little more and you can run it to the standard you like. I know a friend's static will run savage content with potential recruits to see how well they work together and that they can keep up with what the need, which was especially important for when they did Ultimate.

[linayar]

it also shatters the illusion that XIV has a nice playerbase too; if FFXIV is truly all sugar and rainbows, why can't we have damage meters? it's almost like we're awful just like every other gaming community lol

You're confusing the player base/community with the people. Rules, regulations, and limitations (and enforcement of them) help to foster a "nice" player base/community even with "not nice" people being part of it (or rather because of them being part of it).

[Rofel]

An icon or sound queue on training dummies (at least) showing if you are hitting positionals.

[Raikai]

Was thinking on this after running it multiple times.

1) Personal replay system to understand what happened when you died. Like snapshot the last 5-10 seconds before you were killed, and have the ability to replay that. Also, show hidden target areas of the attacks when doing the replay. It will help a lot.

2) A checkbox progress meter based on key mechanics the boss does. This is more of a personal record so you know what specific mechanic you've survived past. It's not perfect, but I'd love to be able to know how many more checkboxes there are before the enrage hits on each fight. They could even have ??? next to the ones you haven't seen yet.

Was trying to think of other things but those two would be "nice to haves". Not sure what else would be missing.

I really don't miss a public DPS meter in the game, but it would be so nice to have some sort of a performance meter that wouldn't give a number but maybe a color (red/yellow/dark green /bright green) just to let you know how well you're doing in the run. Sometimes it's hard to have a perception on that, especially if you're playing a job that is not gated behind a strict rotation.

[Axxion]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but I had to see and learn that some people are not consistent enough and failing a mechanic either results in death or a damage down.
You can't make other people be more consistent in how they resolve mechanics, but you can try to accommodate by pushing your own dps higher.

Here is a thing, what if mechanic are done correctly ,no one died, and no one have a damage down? I remember when I did A12 normal back in heavenward and I was on the ps4. We hit enraged twice we cleared it on the third try with 3 seconds left on enrage. Then what then? I remember we had a mnk in the group didn't use there kit correctly such as using form shift in the beginning to set up and just went in and started punching it and was not using positional.

Don't get me wrong a meter is not needed to see if dps low. You can do a fight an notice how fast a boss is dying. Basic understanding of your class is all is needed and reading your tool tips.

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind having a meter for my personal use. For my eyes only.

Before I forget, please don't say I have a WOW mentality. I never played it.

[Dzian]

And you show your elitism by literally what you said, the devs did not intend for soar to always be skipped else it wouldnt exist, it is a mechanic that exists to be done, by saying everyone should skip it or disband, it means you expect everyone to have performance above what the encounter actually requires which is chosen by the devs, therefore you have falsely inflated the requirements for that content which results in elitism and gatekeeping..

In truth that encounter was also designed by the same developers who designed the mechanics to accomodate 2 tanks.
With that in mind you can't really label it elitism when everyone was running a 1 tank set up specifically for the purpose of bringing some extra dps to skip that mechanic.

It wasnt expecting the 4 damage dealers to step up there game and perform above and beyond the minimum required of them.
It was taking a 5th damage dealer in place of a second tank to do the extra damage required to skip that mechanic.
That being said taking 5 damage dealers and throwing criticism when they only do the damage of 4 damage dealers isn't elitism it's fair critisism.

Even the average Joes were throwing up party finders with a 1 tank set up, it wasn't just the top tier players. The laughable thing about that fight is because every PF group was running 1 tank setups and as such there were a ton of tanks who weren't able to get groups, Which then led to parties of 6 tanks and 2 healers skipping soar mechanics when parties of 5 dps jobs couldn't... That's why its such a meme...

It is really rare for everyone to do the mechanics well yet still fail the dps check when the game is so generous on its DPS requirements since there is quite a big gap between best performance and performance required to clear, even though certain tryhards expect 90 parses for content that requires 40 but that is also done because if you pretend the requirements is that high your achievement must be that high too right? This is completely a psychological problem with people whose self esteem depends on video games.

Ironically it's usually the "bad" (insert better choice of word) players whose self esteem often depends on video games. This is where the sentiment of escapism stems from. People who are lazy, depressed, lonely or feel they can't accomplish anything in there life often escape to video games as a means of finding self esteem.. This is why they often complain about elitism, gatekepping, tryhards.. and a bunch of other terms.

In comparison a lot of the better players (again terrible word choice) play video games to supplement life not escape from it. They hold jobs, families, lives, and still make time to take on the various challenges video games throw at them...

Where as the players who use games as escapism are often the entitled ones. who whine when they can't get that shiny that someone else has so cry for it to be made easier and handed to them on a silver platter. They complain about gate keeping and other such stuff when in reality the only one blocking there path is themselves. No-one is blocking you from entering a piece of content and getting that reward because they dont want you to have it, so there is no gatekeeping or elitism.. Hell they'd probably pat you on the back and say good job if you did take it on and smash it instead of saying "NO you can't have this..."

This is what kills a lot of the content in the game. The way all the rewards and trophies lose all there value and significance because people feel entitled to the same rewards but with none of the effort... It's not about how many people have x trophy or x item. Its about what it represents generally.

I'm far from a top end player these days so iIm definitly not an elitist. I smashed Coil In ARR, dabbled with Alexander in HW. by SB my raiding was basically slot filler for a couple of friends so I have a few clears but sporadic. Omega 1 2, 6, 7, 10 I think? and I've never set foot in eden savage because there's just no real motivation to do so when they keep nerfing everything...

In my mind it's like busting ya ass off in the 500m to win a gold medal. and then find everyone got one at the finish line... You could have walked and still got one (kinda destroys the significance or value.)