Tools they could add besides DPS meters... (For endgame)

[Lanadra]

Which can then be used to beat you over the head with.

No thanks

This. They will never, ever give you raiders something that you can use to 'gauge abilities' in game, like officially sanctioned DPS meters or some nifty score in a profile because those things can and will be used as a bludgeon against others.

Raiders already know this.. you guys already know that even your current parser use is strictly speaking against the rules. SE simply chooses not to enforce on it as long as you keep to your own little parser clubs, in part because they understand it does play a role in your preferred content (Savage/Ultimates). Even so much as a slip of the tongue in a careless moment can get you reported and dragged into Mordion Gaol to give some clarification to a GM who finds themselves slightly curious about statements reported to them that indicate parser information.

[Colt47]

This. They will never, ever give you raiders something that you can use to 'gauge abilities' in game, like officially sanctioned DPS meters or some nifty score in a profile because those things can and will be used as a bludgeon against others.

Raiders already know this.. you guys already know that even your current parser use is strictly speaking against the rules. SE simply chooses not to enforce on it as long as you keep to your own little parser clubs, in part because they understand it does play a role in your preferred content (Savage/Ultimates). Even so much as a slip of the tongue in a careless moment can get you reported and dragged into Mordion Gaol to give some clarification to a GM who finds themselves slightly curious about statements reported to them that indicate parser information.

It's not against the rules to use a parser. If you use it to harass someone it is, but otherwise you can use them without a problem.

Furthermore, I'm tired of discussions where people demonize the raiding community like they are all pricks. Most of the people who do savage and ultimates are good people to play with and they don't push standards onto anyone in this game. You want some of that go play World of Warcraft, Overwatch, League of Legends, etc.

The issues and frustrations most people have is that not everyone uses discord in these runs, we need better tools to provide learning assistance for people to tackle the content since after all these years we are STILL relying on youtubers to crush content ahead of everyone and make guides. The reason they don't support dps meters is because they shouldn't even be needed to judge performance, but we're ending up doing it anyway because class design doesn't always make it clear what set of moves provides the best progress in a fight.

And as far as end game content goes, savage content is STILL better than most of the content they have released that is grind heavy like Eureka and now Bazja, which had to go through a lot of changes to even be viable since no one would even TOUCH castrum until they modded it for rewards. Just look at Savage DR and tell me how playable that is compared to running EX and Savage? I didn't even DO savage until this expansion and I'm doing it because it is the better content.

[Vahlnir]

It's not against the rules to use a parser. If you use it to harass someone it is, but otherwise you can use them without a problem.

It is against the ToS (officially). Unofficially, the devs don't care so long as it isn't used to harass others and players keep quiet about its usage. If you were to, say, post a parse log into a party chat with random players who may or may not be okay with it, you could be reported and there would be evidence for action against your account. It's more of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

[Lanadra]

Furthermore, I'm tired of discussions where people demonize the raiding community like they are all pricks. Most of the people who do savage and ultimates are good people to play with and they don't push standards onto anyone in this game. You want some of that go play World of Warcraft, Overwatch, League of Legends, etc.

Unfortunately people will always remember negative experiences more than positive ones. Positive experiences generally have to stand out and be truly excellent to reach a level where you can point back to it even months later. Whereas bad experiences.. well, the bar there is so very much lower.

Additionally, groups like raiders already tend to bear a stigma so 'kindly' caused usually by the worst among your ranks, the bad apples. It's unfair for sure, but you know what they say.. one bad apple often spoils the bunch.

Even I have in the past primarily experienced 'hardcore competitive raiders' as a bunch of elitists who'd sneer at anyone that doesn't play the way they do, hell, I've seen their ilk posting in these forums (discounting the likes of MPK for obvious reasons).

The issues and frustrations most people have is that not everyone uses discord in these runs, we need better tools to provide learning assistance for people to tackle the content since after all these years we are STILL relying on youtubers to crush content ahead of everyone and make guides. The reason they don't support dps meters is because they shouldn't even be needed to judge performance, but we're ending up doing it anyway because class design doesn't always make it clear what set of moves provides the best progress in a fight.

And as far as end game content goes, savage content is STILL better than most of the content they have released that is grind heavy like Eureka and now Bazja, which had to go through a lot of changes to even be viable since no one would even TOUCH castrum until they modded it for rewards. Just look at Savage DR and tell me how playable that is compared to running EX and Savage? I didn't even DO savage until this expansion and I'm doing it because it is the better content.

Personally I really don't care about parsers, to just name the most obvious example of a tool primarily used by Raiders, myself, I don't play Savage or Ultimates, so parsers are irrelevant to me.. and because they don't affect or ruin my gameplay experience I really have no reason to not want content that apparently needs such tools to have it available for use. Same with other such tools off course.

At the same time I don't think it's bad to remember that SE really isn't likely to give anything that can inherently help gauge people's performance or help categorize without the use of third party tools.. because clearly SE has no desire to cater in that direction.

[Kaurhz]

It's not against the rules to use a parser. If you use it to harass someone it is, but otherwise you can use them without a problem.

Furthermore, I'm tired of discussions where people demonize the raiding community like they are all pricks. Most of the people who do savage and ultimates are good people to play with and they don't push standards onto anyone in this game. You want some of that go play World of Warcraft, Overwatch, League of Legends, etc.

The issues and frustrations most people have is that not everyone uses discord in these runs, we need better tools to provide learning assistance for people to tackle the content since after all these years we are STILL relying on youtubers to crush content ahead of everyone and make guides. The reason they don't support dps meters is because they shouldn't even be needed to judge performance, but we're ending up doing it anyway because class design doesn't always make it clear what set of moves provides the best progress in a fight.

And as far as end game content goes, savage content is STILL better than most of the content they have released that is grind heavy like Eureka and now Bazja, which had to go through a lot of changes to even be viable since no one would even TOUCH castrum until they modded it for rewards. Just look at Savage DR and tell me how playable that is compared to running EX and Savage? I didn't even DO savage until this expansion and I'm doing it because it is the better content.

Actually yes it is. It's just on a don't talk about it, don't get banned basis.

People demonize a lot of areas of the community, not just raiders; hell, Roleplayers had their fair share of this pie a couple of weeks back. Different people will have different experiences, this opinion is formed on the basis of anecdotal evidence, much as is your statement that "Most of the people who do savage and ultimates are good people to play with and they don't push standards onto anyone in this game".

No, they need better mechanics in-game and an expansion of the Hall of Novice to aid in overcoming the skill disparity between different player groups that don't involve the constant dumbing down of gameplay or classes therein, as they've done since Stormblood. If people need to rely on such resources it is because they aren't in a position where they themselves can problem solve. It is the responsibility of you as an individual and your group as a collective to problem solve, not the necessity of newly developed software.

This is a subjective comment, I prefer Eureka and Bozja to most other content in the game simply because it is a significant time-sink, and a relatively enjoyable process if you think outside the box and don't just grind FATEs for eternity. Bozja and Eureka exemplify what the open world of FFXIV should consist of.

[Lanadra]

It is against the ToS (officially). Unofficially, the devs don't care so long as it isn't used to harass others and players keep quiet about its usage. If you were to, say, post a parse log into a party chat with random players who may or may not be okay with it, you could be reported and there would be evidence for action against your account. It's more of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

That was the impression I was also under, yes. I can get that Raiders are so used to it never being a problem that they may forget that technically speaking what they are doing is still against the rules. The use of it is being tolerated as long as it doesn't cause problems.. but I definitely wouldn't advise posting readouts even if someone asks 'how did I do' in a public setting.. ergo, pretty much anything you can viably use DF for.

[Kaurhz]

I hate to burst your bubble, but you know those little events and boss battles that pop up around Eureka and Bozja zones? They are Fates. lol

It might be a stark reality but the content contained within both Bozja and Eureka isn't exclusive FATE content. Like I said, it exemplifies everything that the open-world should be, and what the shared FATE system should be. Try again.

[Vahlnir]

It might be a stark reality but the content contained within both Bozja and Eureka isn't exclusive FATE content. Like I said, it exemplifies everything that the open-world should be, and what the shared FATE system should be. Try again.

Yeah, I deleted my post. I misread what you said. Apologies.

[Vaern]

but I definitely wouldn't advise posting readouts even if someone asks 'how did I do' in a public setting.. ergo, pretty much anything you can viably use DF for.

What's actually funny is that in my experience it's not uncommon in Party Finder groups extremes or savage for people to ask logs sometimes. Hell I even saw people directly posting the link to the logs in chat in response. I couldn't care less as it wasn't harming anyone in any way. But it's not something I'd do myself because I know the policy around it and I don't want any trouble.

[Vahlnir]

What's actually funny is that in my experience it's not uncommon in Party Finder groups extremes or savage for people to ask logs sometimes. Hell I even saw people directly posting the link to the logs in chat in response. I couldn't care less as it wasn't harming anyone in any way. But it's not something I'd do myself because I know the policy around it and I don't want any trouble.

If everyone's cool with it then no harm no foul. Personally, I wouldn't care either. But someone somewhere would so it's usually best not to risk it.