My first experience at tanking

[Shin96]

I don't really mind how you play. I just got bugged by that "tank is dominating the party" talk. I'm not against you and certainly don't care if I ever queue with you, I'll let you do your job and I'll do mine.

I agree and ironically people took issue with that statement the most. It certainly was my fault for not explaining it correctly. Again, I'm not going to make a fuss about the DPS pulling unless there really is someone that's screwing over the whole party. Look no further than OP, one less tank because of this incident. I don't think it's fair to leverage all the blame on someone because they're fed up with that event. Instead of turning on me they should think about wether or not this concept is going to help the game grow more tanks. Certainly not with what I mentioned before in terms of skill and anxiety others may have.

[VelKallor]

Tommara

That's why I've never tanked before in a public group in FF14, and will never do so again

Please reconsider. I was terrified of tanking and have had some bruising experiences, but thanks to some kind players who walked me through methods and practice, i do now. Not the high end stuff, but Ive done a lot of the raids and dungeons, you will find a lot of good groups along the way.

Please dont let one bad set put you off..we need good tanks

so I was fine waiting for them before engaging.

..and that is the hallmark of a good tank. One with patience.

Had a dungeon the other day where a SMN kept pulling ahead, so we just stood there and let him be well and truly mollicated. When he respawned and ran back, the healer said sweetly "Wanna let the tank pull now?"

Rest of the run went like a dream.

Dont let one bad apple put you off, okay? You will grow to love it I hope, as I eventually did.

- Vel.

[Awha]

Here is the problem with the classic tank setting the pace mindset. It largely does not work in this game since the only pace where a tank is required is wall-to-wall pulls. So in practice tanks should have only one pace.

Sure if the group is struggling and stuff that is a different story though tbh as a healer all I need is the tank to do AoE and one dps to do an AoE. Though I mostly play WHM so my AoE is nutty.

I do have issues where tanks do single pulls out of a desire to seek comfort cause I can heal a dps through a single pull and even dungeon bosses. A single pull tank is a giant waste of space. So the mindset of tanks set the pace for the most part is fine, but when tanks exercise that right to dominate the party so to speak when it comes to being a waste of space is what I think a lot of people may have issue with.

Though my view has bias since I often ask tanks to take gear off just so I have something to heal.

Tommara



Please reconsider. I was terrified of tanking and have had some bruising experiences, but thanks to some kind players who walked me through methods and practice, i do now. Not the high end stuff, but Ive done a lot of the raids and dungeons, you will find a lot of good groups along the way.

Please dont let one bad set put you off..we need good tanks



..and that is the hallmark of a good tank. One with patience.

Had a dungeon the other day where a SMN kept pulling ahead, so we just stood there and let him be well and truly mollicated. When he respawned and ran back, the healer said sweetly "Wanna let the tank pull now?"

Rest of the run went like a dream.

Dont let one bad apple put you off, okay? You will grow to love it I hope, as I eventually did.

- Vel.

Also here is the issue with that it only works if the group follows suit. If the other dps helped the smn they probably could have done it. If the healer helped they most definitely would have done it. I have ran into tanks that do what you do I just heal the dps then you find yourself in a weird spot stand around doing nothing just to prove a point or suck it up and perform your given role.

[VelKallor]

I have only ever done that once, usually I just sigh and get on with it.

Funny part is that Ive had very very few bad groups...and a lot of VERY awesome ones.

[Lanadra]

No one died. But there was this ranged dps toon who apparently thought that killing everything was a good idea, while I thought that just completing the dungeon objectives was a better idea.

The dps toon started crowing about "Yay, I'm tanking!" Apparently, it didn't occur to him that was only because the healer and I would bail him out. This was just Sastasha, btw, with at least one member who was watching cutscenes, so I was fine waiting for them before engaging.

I know I'm preaching to the choir (Edited Note: People who do that probably don't read these forums). That's why I've never tanked before in a public group in FF14, and will never do so again. I accomplished my objective - get my baby tank to a high enough level to do Squadron missions.

Enjoy your long queue times, dps who do that. I know most of you do not behave that way, but we all suffer because of few who do.

You really shouldn't have bailed him out. That likely only encouraged their behavior. Should have just let him die two or three times, sure he'll get salty but then at least you can tell them to fall in line or keep dying.

If it was enough of an issue probably should've just booted the guy if it bother you too much, depending how slow you were going I might have done the same. Had a tank in Dzmael Darkhold single pulling in the first area when they take almost zero damage from the blue zones, I got tired of it and pulled up to boss room myself as healer.

If I get a healer like that, I'd adopt the 'you pulled it, now enjoy tanking it' stance. I fully recognize it's the wrong stance to have.. hell, I play WHM a lot myself in dungeons and wouldn't want a tank to do that to me.. that's why I don't try and usurp their job as the point man. If you don't like the tanks pace, tell them, tell them that you can handle big pulls and see what their response is, maybe they're not yet comfortable with the pulls you're clearly looking for. The pace of a dungeon is ideally decided by a consensus of the healer and tank of what each can handle and indeed feels comfortable with.

Anyhow, I said I would adopt above stance if I get a healer who does what you would, but in reality that will never happen because I don't do leveling dungeons as tank.. exactly because I hate the pulling game. My sense of thrill and enjoyment in tanking comes from boss fights.. trials, raids, alliance raids.

[Greyhawk]

I laugh but how is this also not considered toxic also?

I mostly tank but I do not understand this mindset. In the grand scheme tank playstyle does not change be it three mobs or twenty. Group success is largely based around the healer and overall group dps.

Of course it's toxic - but not to the people who want to get through this the most efficient way possible. Here is why DPS pulling is the most inefficient way of doing things:

(Idiot A) doesn't like the fact that the Tank is running behind the group because (Idiot A) hits Peloton to get ahead of everyone as soon as possible while out of range of everyone, or any other ability to get ahead of everyone like it's some kind of race. (Idiot A) begins pulling. (Idiot A) then starts running around like a fool, while it wastes the Tank's time to try and gather what mobs (Idiot A) keeps kiting away from Tank. (Idiot A) dies after he wall pulls himself in front of everyone while the Tank is also sprinting from behind to catch up to (Idiot A) who also hit sprint as soon as he grabbed the first set of mobs. While sprinting, Tank is trying to gather mobs off (Idiot A). Mobs go to Healer who was trying to heal (Idiot A) on the run, who now has agro on eight mobs because Tank wasn't the one pulling mobs. Thanks, (Idiot A). Healer had also tried to run to Tank to get agro, who died on the way from 8 mobs beating them on the back of the head.

You actually waste more time in a dungeon wiping and starting over because someone was just too impatient for the tank. The above represents exactly the same type of trash that I see on almost a weekly basis - no joke. You spent more time from DPS pulling, running around like they are on fire, Healer trying to heal them (because that's what they do) and can't keep up with a wall pulling moron who can't take the hits. All while the Tank is trying to gather every mob hitting the Healer and DPS and wipes everyone.

So tell me which is more toxic - Letting one die, or the group die. When I tank, especially expert, I'm the first one trying to get out in front of everyone - but I'm not burning 15 cooldowns to get there first. I use sprint in situations where I run to the wall to gather the mobs, not run to them first by hitting sprint to start off. I hit sprint after I'm gathering the 1st group, to get to the wall to gather the rest. When you F up my Chi in a group and screw up my pulls by being first to mobs to pull them, that tells me that your tanking skills in a previous life need to be shown to the rest of us. So, have at it my friend. We'll be back here enjoying the popcorn to make it that much easier to gather the mobs after you die. It's much easier to gather mobs that will run to me next when the Healer is standing right next to me and not running around like a fool.

[Shin96]

(Idiot A) then starts running around like a fool, while it wastes the Tank's time to try and gather what mobs (Idiot A) keeps kiting away from Tank.

I couldn't have worded it better than you did. I agree with everything you say.

Essentially what happens is they use Sprint and Peleton to be the first in line, kite the enemies away, then the party arrives and what happens next? Mob A is on the left side, and Mob B is on the right side. All the while they run around like a headless chicken because they're scared of dying, running to the healer and making the whole process a pain to go through. It may seem like nothing to them but you can't pick up aggro with so much space in-between all at once. But don't expect much from them because the Tank is supposed to suck it up for them. Since apparently that's my job's description.

If a tank ends up slowing down the process purposefully then I absolutely agree - you should tell them or kick them via vote. But that's not what happens most of the time. I pull almost every group of enemies I see provided my healer is efficent, which is clear after one group of mobs or two. By running headfirst you do not only make matters more complicated, but you're also telling me screw everyone they will put up with it anyway. NO thanks.

[Awha]

Of course it's toxic - but not to the people who want to get through this the most efficient way possible. Here is why DPS pulling is the most inefficient way of doing things:

(Idiot A) doesn't like the fact that the Tank is running behind the group because (Idiot A) hits Peloton to get ahead of everyone as soon as possible while out of range of everyone, or any other ability to get ahead of everyone like it's some kind of race. (Idiot A) begins pulling. (Idiot A) then starts running around like a fool, while it wastes the Tank's time to try and gather what mobs (Idiot A) keeps kiting away from Tank. (Idiot A) dies after he wall pulls himself in front of everyone while the Tank is also sprinting from behind to catch up to (Idiot A) who also hit sprint as soon as he grabbed the first set of mobs. While sprinting, Tank is trying to gather mobs off (Idiot A). Mobs go to Healer who was trying to heal (Idiot A) on the run, who now has agro on eight mobs because Tank wasn't the one pulling mobs. Thanks, (Idiot A). Healer had also tried to run to Tank to get agro, who died on the way from 8 mobs beating them on the back of the head.

You actually waste more time in a dungeon wiping and starting over because someone was just too impatient for the tank. The above represents exactly the same type of trash that I see on almost a weekly basis - no joke. You spent more time from DPS pulling, running around like they are on fire, Healer trying to heal them (because that's what they do) and can't keep up with a wall pulling moron who can't take the hits. All while the Tank is trying to gather every mob hitting the Healer and DPS and wipes everyone.

So tell me which is more toxic - Letting one die, or the group die. When I tank, especially expert, I'm the first one trying to get out in front of everyone - but I'm not burning 15 cooldowns to get there first. I use sprint in situations where I run to the wall to gather the mobs, not run to them first by hitting sprint to start off. I hit sprint after I'm gathering the 1st group, to get to the wall to gather the rest. When you F up my Chi in a group and screw up my pulls by being first to mobs to pull them, that tells me that your tanking skills in a previous life need to be shown to the rest of us. So, have at it my friend. We'll be back here enjoying the popcorn to make it that much easier to gather the mobs after you die. It's much easier to gather mobs that will run to me next when the Healer is standing right next to me and not running around like a fool.

That has less to do with a DPS pulling and more so an idiot pulling. If someone pulls for the tank and refuses to bring them back to the tank that is 100% on them. Hell if I was healing and ran into a tank that pulled that crap running around I would also let them die. Cannot heal stupid.

Though I will say if it is sastasha I have aoe kited all the mobs you to the clams and all the mobs before the final boss. Final area was a tad tricky cause of the range but it is was fun as a DNC. When the tank refused to do larger pulls.

[Pells]

Though I will say if it is sastasha I have aoe kited all the mobs you to the clams and all the mobs before the final boss.

All the mobs. ALL. THE. MOBS.

Including the two guards at the door to the hole, and the eight in the bar who are fighting each other?

Did you complain about the lack of tanking while you were at it, while the rest of the party was in the captain's quarters? Because:

there was this ranged dps toon who apparently thought that killing everything was a good idea, while I thought that just completing the dungeon objectives was a better idea

[Awha]

All the mobs. ALL. THE. MOBS.

Including the two guards at the door to the hole, and the eight in the bar who are fighting each other?

Did you complain about the lack of tanking while you were at it, while the rest of the party was in the captain's quarters? Because:

Nah I just did it cause I got annoyed with the single pulls and the tank pulling that they are the leader so I did my own thing just to prove a point. I did ignore the slaves though. I did even say I am the captain now. I also did it so they could not remove me cause I was always in combat or had loot rolling cause they did try to wait out the timer. This was also months ago I rarely dps now in DF unless I am with friends.