Why is glamour the end-game?

[Iscah]

That’s not what I said at all.

I believe I specifically said “ It more or less boils down to having little constructive to do at endgame.” which, I believe, does not comment on what people are doing pre endgame.

The op question is “why is glamour the endgame?” It’s pretty obvious that many people focus on the story or leveling up or whatever, but once that is gone those players either quit for a while or try niche content. Or alternatively, collect glamour more than they would otherwise.

Glamour is endgame if glamour is a thing you want to focus on. It doesn't require the absence of other endgame content for people to choose to focus on it.

I don't tackle most of the high-level content that other people consider endgame, but glamour is what keeps me here and playing around with my characters. It's not that I'm bored and have run out of things to do but feel obliged to hang around. If I didn't have anything to do here, I'd be off and playing other games until the next story patch. But glamour is a thing I actively want to spend time on in the game.

And I think at least a good number of people who use the "true endgame" phrase aren't just talking about what you do at the end of the game inbetween patches. It's what you're always working towards, long before you actually hit endgame. Got all the things you wanted and made your character look fabulous? Congrats, you won.

I’m not sure you understand the meaning of the word “constructive”. It means “having or intended to have a useful or beneficial purpose”, or alternatively “helping to improve; promoting further development or advancement”.

It does not mean “something I like or enjoy doing” and also does not imply non constructive things are a waste of time.

So then which things are endgame are and aren't "constructive"?

Doesn't everything give you some kind of benefit, depending on your goal?

And what isn't constructive about making your character look better? Exercising some creativity? Taking artistic screenshots? I think that's a lot more beneficial and productive than running something over and over just for a few more skill points that are going to be irrelevant in a few months.

[kaynide]

Glamour is endgame if glamour is a thing you want to focus on. It doesn't require the absence of other endgame content for people to choose to focus on it.

I’m still not sure what your point is towards me. Op asked why glamour is popular endgame, with my answer being that there are less options of things to do once you reach endgame. I’m not sure why you misunderstand that as glamours being something you couldn’t do except as endgame.

quote regarding constructive or not

I’m not interested in arguing the semantics of how a lateral move from red shoes to green shoes will make you feel satisfied (until they don’t) somehow means your character has been improved upon or made more useful. You are welcome to believe what you like, and we can agree to disagree over the meaning of some words.

Iinayar’s quote right above this is a fine way to interpret the word, and while I disagree, I will concede if that’s how she feels, it’s not my business.

[Keramory]

Do you guys really think that's the only time people would engage with glamour?

Dressing up my characters is one of the first things I think about, not a time filler for when I've run out of "real" content.

And that's fine, my wife spends more time making her character look cute then anything else. I'm sure many do the same. However what we're referring to is the OP's questions as to why the joke "Glamour is Endgame" is a popular saying across this game. I'd say the game is very cosmetic driven. That's not a criticism. If anything it's a compliment to how beautiful the game is. That said "glamour being endgame" is a symptom that stems from both that and what I listed earlier. People don't leave the towns because there are not any real-world dungeons and sit there looking pretty. Equipping non-glam gear has almost no motivation as all gear is quickly replaced and easy to obtain, so there isn't the typical MMO "bragging gear" you'd normally see.

[linayar]

I’m not sure you understand the meaning of the word “constructive”. It means “having or intended to have a useful or beneficial purpose”, or alternatively “helping to improve; promoting further development or advancement”.

It does not mean “something I like or enjoy doing” and also does not imply non constructive things are a waste of time.

I think the point is that making yourself look good is a "useful or beneficial purpose" for some (or even many) people. It helps "to improve and promote further development or advancement" of your appearance, which are important to certain people.

the joke "Glamour is Endgame" is a popular saying across this game.

At this point, people may have to accept that it's not a joke and, like you said, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

It may only be a joke for people who view gear only as a tool for combat, but it's a (welcomed?) reality for others.

[Bright-Flower]

It's not just about looking good.

It's also about taking as many screenshots as you can of your character looking good.

This is why I consider mods to be "cheating", in some respects. You didn't earn that glam, you just hacked it into the game! /s

I don't really have an issue with mods, but for me knowing that my character looks differently on everyone else's screen if I were to use them has always been a deterrent. Sure it might be nice to have a better model for X piece of gear display on my end but the disconnect of everyone else seeing something different unless they have the same mod just kind of pushes me away from wanting to use them. Esecially if it's some sort of outfit that will look goofy without the mods on.

[Bright-Flower]

Eeeeh I like having my character look good in duties too I don't think glamour would be less popular if there was more content in the world like world dungeons etc. People like having their character look nice regardless of the content or where in the game they spend their time.

[Anya_Synia]

I love glamour, I can spend ages experimenting on different combinations and looking at websites for inspiration. There is a whole community around it the more serious ones do gposing aswell.

[Derio]

Gear has an expiration date. Mounts, weapon styles, certain styles dont thus glamour is the true endgame. The point of the game is not to clear the hard content for the gear, but to clear the hard content for the mount/weapon style it drops.

[Iscah]

That said "glamour being endgame" is a symptom that stems from both that and what I listed earlier. People don't leave the towns because there are not any real-world dungeons and sit there looking pretty.

I’m still not sure what your point is towards me. Op asked why glamour is popular endgame, with my answer being that there are less options of things to do once you reach endgame. I’m not sure why you misunderstand that as glamours being something you couldn’t do except as endgame.

I think my point is that, as far as I've understood it, when people say "glamour is endgame" they don't mean "glamour is the thing you do when you've reached the stage of the game referred to as endgame" but that it's off the side as separate target that you can be pursuing at any stage of the game.

(As an example of using it this way, and not just by me, Eorzea Collection ran a challenge to make glamours that would be accessible under level 50, given the title "Novice Endgame" - i.e. you can be active in this endgame long before you finish the game because you are collecting "endgame equipment" from level 1.)

I’m not interested in arguing the semantics of how a lateral move from red shoes to green shoes will make you feel satisfied (until they don’t) somehow means your character has been improved upon or made more useful. You are welcome to believe what you like, and we can agree to disagree over the meaning of some words.

Of course the green shoes are better. The red ones clashed horribly.

The point is, obtaining pieces that match with each other to create an appearance feels like perfecting something, and it's obtaining something I don't currently have. Stats are always there and they're boring, and I don't really pay attention to them unless it's stopping me from accessing content.

[Xatsh]

Glamour is the only thing in the game that last more then 6-8 months.

Unfortunately the devs have made all content extremely short lived throw away content. Why care about clearing raids when literally no one cares next raid tier due to a hard reset basically when brainless macro crafted gear is better then your raid gear instantly. Raids gear ends up being vanity gear in 8 months.

So in the end your 100s of hours of hard work. The late nights, Vacation days taken, weekend spent on the computer raiding..... They boil down to the equivalent of a lvl 1, 1 dmg, glow stick.... And I have no idea why so many people support this design decision in development it is an issue is so many mmos these days. FFXIV just does it more so then any other AAA game.

Gota think of it like this. If you remove all content that only rewards mounts, only rewards glamour gear (Gear that is not usable at current endgame or lvl 1 gear), housing items, hairstyles, music scrolls, dances, fashion accessories, minions. If all that was removed would there enough content to keep players interested longterm? I would say a hard no to this, there would not be. So FFXIV is literally kept alive by the fluff content and shinnies. Thus Glamour is the focus of this game. Even for top tier raiders as you can clear the whole weeks raids in what 3-5hrs, then fluff fills the rest of the week.