Expert Dungeon System

[Absurdity]

The issue with dungeons isn't just a "numbers" issue.

Their layout is uninspired, they basically all follow the formula of 2-3 trash packs placed in straight corridors, then some kind of barrier that prevents progress, another 2 trash packs in a straight corridor, then a boss, rinse and repeat. Sure, they may look fancy the first time you're in there but that's basically all these dungeons amount to for a long time now.
On top of that the trash is usually just as boring, most of the time they just do physical or magical auto attacks with maybe an easily avoidable aoe in-between.


This makes it incredibly easy to speedrun the dungeons since navigation is simply a one-way street, but it doesn't make for a very engaging experience.

[Jirah]

The issue with dungeons isn't just a "numbers" issue.

Their layout is uninspired, they basically all follow the formula of 2-3 trash packs placed in straight corridors, then some kind of barrier that prevents progress, another 2 trash packs in a straight corridor, then a boss, rinse and repeat. Sure, they may look fancy the first time you're in there but that's basically all these dungeons amount to for a long time now.
On top of that the trash is usually just as boring, most of the time they just do physical or magical auto attacks with maybe an easily avoidable aoe in-between.


This makes it incredibly easy to speedrun the dungeons since navigation is simply a one-way street, but it doesn't make for a very engaging experience.

layout may be a issue but i think its the lackluster trash pulls that make up half the instance, Look at Relict for example. They gate the crap out of you to make sure your careful which is such a crappy attitude to have almost handholdy in a way far more so than sastasha which is very lax and very sad. For trash to be engaging they need to shuffle each role at its core

Tanks- Guide and direct the crowd and to keep the crowd manageable or you die and to not bite more than you can chew and to aggro all strays and to keep away from hazards
DPS- Deal damage, but also be ready to stun and interrupt and prioritize certain mobs if need be and of course keeping away from aoes and hazards
Healer- Keep the team alive, and be ready for Aoes or to deal damage if need be

Relict, still my example, does the absolute bare minimum

[Iscah]

Their layout is uninspired, they basically all follow the formula of 2-3 trash packs placed in straight corridors, then some kind of barrier that prevents progress, another 2 trash packs in a straight corridor, then a boss, rinse and repeat. Sure, they may look fancy the first time you're in there but that's basically all these dungeons amount to for a long time now.

The thing is, even when the dungeons aren't constructed that way, players treat them like they are.

Side rooms in Sastasha. What are they?

Branching paths in Toto-Rak. When did anyone ever take the alternate route through the first zone? One tank in all the times I've played it.

Puzzles and treasure keys in Qarn. Lol no, we're just going to barrel straight past them and deliberately do the puzzle wrong because it's quicker to deal with the trap than to disarm it.

If I was a dungeon designer, I don't think I'd bother trying to make them interesting any more either.

[ForteNightshade]

The thing is, even when the dungeons aren't constructed that way, players treat them like they are.

Side rooms in Sastasha. What are they?

Branching paths in Toto-Rak. When did anyone ever take the alternate route through the first zone? One tank in all the times I've played it.

Puzzles and treasure keys in Qarn. Lol no, we're just going to barrel straight past them and deliberately do the puzzle wrong because it's quicker to deal with the trap than to disarm it.

If I was a dungeon designer, I don't think I'd bother trying to make them interesting any more either.

What incentive do people have to explore though? If I don't need the accessory drop in Brayflox, then I have no reason to deviate. The issue with older ARR dungeons is the dev team added branching paths with no reason to explore them. They just expected us to. Which is fine on a first run, but afterwards... well, I don't have a reason to care about it anymore.

As Rufalus said, there needs to be compelling RNG to incentivize exploration. If going down a different path gave you bonus tomes or gil, people would be far more interested in taking detours.

[ReynTime]

The thing is, even when the dungeons aren't constructed that way, players treat them like they are.

Side rooms in Sastasha. What are they?

Branching paths in Toto-Rak. When did anyone ever take the alternate route through the first zone? One tank in all the times I've played it.

Puzzles and treasure keys in Qarn. Lol no, we're just going to barrel straight past them and deliberately do the puzzle wrong because it's quicker to deal with the trap than to disarm it.

If I was a dungeon designer, I don't think I'd bother trying to make them interesting any more either.

That's because the dev team for whatever reason decided to scrap the bonus chest system from 1.1X. Those justified exploring, because there were bonus for clearing optional bosses/areas or opening certain chests.
IMO it was a big mistake. They tried to do optional paths/dead-ends during ARR despite removing the only thing motivating players to explore more than once per character if even that.

Moreover, as long as every dungeon is meant to be included in a daily roulette, there will always be a majority of players who just want to hurry and get it done. I don't care if the designers are so short-sighted now that they insist 4-8p dungeons can't be more than they are. If they implemented non-hallway sim dungeons designed not to be part of roulettes and give their own rewards, featuring the bonus chest mechanic again, I'm pretty sure it would work better than they expect.

Make bonus chest give mats for glamour recipe that can't be gotten otherwise, mount/minion chance, extra tomestones, or maybe even long-lasting role-wide leveling gear as a tiny extra if any of these dungeons could be spread across lower level tiers. It's not like there is a lack of things to use poetics for anyway.