Expert Dungeon System

[synnap]

I know that this suggestion might not be welcomed by the community, but I think that dungeons could use a bit of a revamp to bring more content into the game and increase dungeon replayability. Right now, most dungeons are centered around either spamming them for levels or just to grind out roulettes. Most of this content is trivial to players who have cleared the dungeon already, and the only real exciting moments is when someone messes up, doesn’t dodge a mechanic, or simply stands in the wrong place and takes some additional damage. What if there was a system in place that allowed a group of four seasoned players to be challenged by dungeon content where the dungeon increased in difficulty (mob HP, damage taken, dungeon timer shortened, etc.) in order to push players who were looking for a challenge?

Expert Dungeons - Take the dungeons already in place and just add “expert” versions of these dungeons. Players, from the Group Finder Menu, could select to run the dungeon in whatever difficulty mode they would desire ranging in difficulty from 1-25 (or more). Levels 1-5 would be available to them, and clearing lvl5 would open up higher ranks of selectable difficulty, and so on. Mobs have higher HP amounts, do more damage, and may require the group to pull mobs in certain order or at a certain pace to ensure survivability. The dungeon timer would be reduced in order to “push” players to finish the dungeon within time. Of course, these limitations would be enhanced the higher you pushed you pushed the dungeon difficulty.

Linking to Story - It would be important to bring a story element to the dungeons, so tying this type of content in with Cid and some sort of newly discovered Allag technology where the Warrior of Light could train to improve their own skills to overcome upcoming events.

Rewards - Rewarding players for pushing this type of content would also need to be provided, outside of just tomestones. The suggested rewards I had in mind were centered around dyes, glamour pieces (specialized to running this type of content), materia, gil, cards, mounts (for achieving higher levels of difficulty), housing items, and other types of non-marketable items. I do not like the idea of adding in gear that scales with dungeon difficulty because I feel that would trivialize other aspects of the game and create a situation where the Devs would be having to scale content based upon this gear. Likewise, adding scaling gear from these dungeons would make the concept mandatory for other players and center the entire game around running these dungeons for increasingly higher ilvls of equipment to make other content easier. However, the rewards need to be incentivizing enough to make the content desirable to run and repeat without disrupting all other forms of content.

[Rongway]

A lot of what you're describing is just Deep Dungeon challenge floor sets.

[Jirah]

A lot of what you're describing is just Deep Dungeon challenge floor sets.

SHb didnt have a deep dungeon

[ItMe]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems like you're asking for dungeons with higher numbers and a relevant timer. While I would enjoy harder dungeons, I feel like they need more than a number tweak to make them fresh.

[Yuella]

you can do them with minimum ilvl

[Absurdity]

The issue with dungeons isn't just a "numbers" issue.

Their layout is uninspired, they basically all follow the formula of 2-3 trash packs placed in straight corridors, then some kind of barrier that prevents progress, another 2 trash packs in a straight corridor, then a boss, rinse and repeat. Sure, they may look fancy the first time you're in there but that's basically all these dungeons amount to for a long time now.
On top of that the trash is usually just as boring, most of the time they just do physical or magical auto attacks with maybe an easily avoidable aoe in-between.


This makes it incredibly easy to speedrun the dungeons since navigation is simply a one-way street, but it doesn't make for a very engaging experience.

[Jirah]

The issue with dungeons isn't just a "numbers" issue.

Their layout is uninspired, they basically all follow the formula of 2-3 trash packs placed in straight corridors, then some kind of barrier that prevents progress, another 2 trash packs in a straight corridor, then a boss, rinse and repeat. Sure, they may look fancy the first time you're in there but that's basically all these dungeons amount to for a long time now.
On top of that the trash is usually just as boring, most of the time they just do physical or magical auto attacks with maybe an easily avoidable aoe in-between.


This makes it incredibly easy to speedrun the dungeons since navigation is simply a one-way street, but it doesn't make for a very engaging experience.

layout may be a issue but i think its the lackluster trash pulls that make up half the instance, Look at Relict for example. They gate the crap out of you to make sure your careful which is such a crappy attitude to have almost handholdy in a way far more so than sastasha which is very lax and very sad. For trash to be engaging they need to shuffle each role at its core

Tanks- Guide and direct the crowd and to keep the crowd manageable or you die and to not bite more than you can chew and to aggro all strays and to keep away from hazards
DPS- Deal damage, but also be ready to stun and interrupt and prioritize certain mobs if need be and of course keeping away from aoes and hazards
Healer- Keep the team alive, and be ready for Aoes or to deal damage if need be

Relict, still my example, does the absolute bare minimum

[Iscah]

Their layout is uninspired, they basically all follow the formula of 2-3 trash packs placed in straight corridors, then some kind of barrier that prevents progress, another 2 trash packs in a straight corridor, then a boss, rinse and repeat. Sure, they may look fancy the first time you're in there but that's basically all these dungeons amount to for a long time now.

The thing is, even when the dungeons aren't constructed that way, players treat them like they are.

Side rooms in Sastasha. What are they?

Branching paths in Toto-Rak. When did anyone ever take the alternate route through the first zone? One tank in all the times I've played it.

Puzzles and treasure keys in Qarn. Lol no, we're just going to barrel straight past them and deliberately do the puzzle wrong because it's quicker to deal with the trap than to disarm it.

If I was a dungeon designer, I don't think I'd bother trying to make them interesting any more either.

[ForteNightshade]

The thing is, even when the dungeons aren't constructed that way, players treat them like they are.

Side rooms in Sastasha. What are they?

Branching paths in Toto-Rak. When did anyone ever take the alternate route through the first zone? One tank in all the times I've played it.

Puzzles and treasure keys in Qarn. Lol no, we're just going to barrel straight past them and deliberately do the puzzle wrong because it's quicker to deal with the trap than to disarm it.

If I was a dungeon designer, I don't think I'd bother trying to make them interesting any more either.

What incentive do people have to explore though? If I don't need the accessory drop in Brayflox, then I have no reason to deviate. The issue with older ARR dungeons is the dev team added branching paths with no reason to explore them. They just expected us to. Which is fine on a first run, but afterwards... well, I don't have a reason to care about it anymore.

As Rufalus said, there needs to be compelling RNG to incentivize exploration. If going down a different path gave you bonus tomes or gil, people would be far more interested in taking detours.

[ReynTime]

The thing is, even when the dungeons aren't constructed that way, players treat them like they are.

Side rooms in Sastasha. What are they?

Branching paths in Toto-Rak. When did anyone ever take the alternate route through the first zone? One tank in all the times I've played it.

Puzzles and treasure keys in Qarn. Lol no, we're just going to barrel straight past them and deliberately do the puzzle wrong because it's quicker to deal with the trap than to disarm it.

If I was a dungeon designer, I don't think I'd bother trying to make them interesting any more either.

That's because the dev team for whatever reason decided to scrap the bonus chest system from 1.1X. Those justified exploring, because there were bonus for clearing optional bosses/areas or opening certain chests.
IMO it was a big mistake. They tried to do optional paths/dead-ends during ARR despite removing the only thing motivating players to explore more than once per character if even that.

Moreover, as long as every dungeon is meant to be included in a daily roulette, there will always be a majority of players who just want to hurry and get it done. I don't care if the designers are so short-sighted now that they insist 4-8p dungeons can't be more than they are. If they implemented non-hallway sim dungeons designed not to be part of roulettes and give their own rewards, featuring the bonus chest mechanic again, I'm pretty sure it would work better than they expect.

Make bonus chest give mats for glamour recipe that can't be gotten otherwise, mount/minion chance, extra tomestones, or maybe even long-lasting role-wide leveling gear as a tiny extra if any of these dungeons could be spread across lower level tiers. It's not like there is a lack of things to use poetics for anyway.