Mentor Requirements

[Krotoan]

These requirements just seem to be grindy for no reason. How about open access to a help chat in the game and allowing people to right click a person and select "Give Thanks". If they have a lot of "Thanks" from a lot of unique players they'll become a mentor after a certain point. (Something like 50 thanks from at least 20 different people)

This way you have to help people to become a mentor. People's suggestions in this thread mean that whoever grinds the most becomes the mentors which I don't think makes sense.

I like the idea of putting your mentor qualifications in positive votes instead of some arbitrary grindable metric. Commendations aren't particularly laudable especially with a XP incentive behind giving them out. You can farm them just by being a tank and doing raids or being the last to leave an instance.

[van_arn]

Oh look another thread trying to tell mentors how to mentor.

[Syntharia]

So a little background first, I've been a mentor since the system started way back when, I have been in the game since it started. I have seen this game change through the good, the bad, and the ugly, when they introduced the mentor system I feel like it was a wonderful new addition. We had it back in FFXI (Yes I know that horrible game that everyone freaks out over the minute you mention it on FFXIV) which was actually a nice system when it first started out. You could help new players, make some lasting friendships, even help them experience and deal through the crazy rage inducing system that was FFXI. So the minute they spoke about bringing the system to FFXIV I knew I wanted to jump on that due to having been a mentor in FFXI and remembering how it felt to help new players and then see them at top level completing things they only hoped to accomplish when they first started. THAT is what I thought of when the mention of the mentor system first came around, the idea of getting to see new players talking about their frustrations, being able to lead them in the correct direction, being the mentor who gives them a reason to keep playing and finding that right spot for them in the game. Being the one who is able to help them when they are lost, being able to teach them about all the exciting parts of the game that makes it fun, the story, the 24 man raids, the side quests like Hilde, teaching them melding, crafting, gathering, etc. This is what it means to be a mentor to me, being the person that when someone is lost you are there to answer for them and if you can't, well you have co-mentors there to lead them to. Making friendships with your co-mentors so that you all work together knowing who is better at what and being able to lead a sprout to someone who is better and understands crafting, or gathering, or raiding, or PvP, whatever it maybe, just so that player understands and isn't frustrated anymore. We as mentors are not here for the shiny crown, not for the 2 seater mount locked behind the mentor roulette, not for having our own little "private" chatting channel, WE are here to help the players who are lost, confused, and just frustrated to make sure they get the help they need so they ENJOY the game as we all did once.

Now with that said, sadly the Mentor System is NOT what I just described above, it is a toxic chat channel where I have met many sprouts who won't even ask questions because they either have been ignored in the past because mentors are just chatting and not caring, because mentors are talking about topics they should NOT be talking about in Novice Network, or because they simply are too terrified to ask due to seeing how some Mentors treat other players in either chat in general or dungeons. A system that is supposed to be there FOR THE SPROUTS isn't even really used by the sprouts at all because of some of these reasons and perhaps many more.


With that said, one of two things I believe should happen. Now this is my opinion and mine alone but this is what I believe.

First option, remove the system all together. It is a failed system as it is now, sprouts who do chat with the mentors do because they have been accepted into the "cliques" that are created in there just turn around and quickly level their crafters and gatherers to then be able to get back into the Novice Network so they are back with their "clique" chatting again. Mentors use the channel as just a chatting channel, and rarely (I didn't say not at all I said RARELY) does the channel ever actually get used for the purpose it is intended for. If it's not being used as it's supposed to be, then remove it. Strip the crowns so that is no longer something people strive for, remove the channel so a global chat is no longer a thing, and just remove the whole system all together that way people don't want to try it just because there is also a mount locked behind it. Take this back to where the "help" should be coming from THE PLAYERS & FREE COMPANIES. Free Companies are a dead thing now, yes I get some people do use their FC's and I also understand some FC's are Role Playing FC's. However, a lot of FC's are just a single person owned FC's to own a house, or they are FC's that have been trying to recruit and just having no luck. This would revive those FC's and give them more players who might of never even thought about it before. We have a wonderful new Website for the Community Finder for FC's, and it could be used to it's full potential. You can list your FC as new player friendly, however I believe if the Mentor System was removed, they could give FC's the right to list themselves as Mentoring style FC's and "Host" 1 or 2 FC's on the Community Site as endorsed FC adds ushering the sprouts towards these FC's who are there to help. Make it so those 1 or 2 FC ads are at the center top, and they get cycled through every so many minutes so a new FC is shown all the time so it's not a someone has more time than another FC thing. ALSO give people the right to report FC's if sprouts find them to NOT be new player friendly, or let sprouts be allowed to give the FC's stars or something showing a sprouts support of that FC, or write a review in a sense of the FC. Something that shows they are what they are claiming to be, but also something that if you have an jerk player in the FC, well now it's on the Officers and Owner of the FC to deal with it, if not then the sprout can leave and find hopefully a better fit for help. This will put new players back into a system of wanting to join an FC, wanting to find an FC that fits them and will help them towards the goals they want to achieve rather then a system where they just play alone the whole way. I really believe we need to find another way to utilize the FC's so they have and serve a purpose again (However that is another topic for another day).

Second option, SE needs to decide to finally put a separate Terms of Service and attach it to the Mentor System. You want to be a mentor? Awesome, this is your TOS. Have it outline things like, how you should act towards your fellow players within the Novice Network, how NN isn't a global chat, what is appropriate and isn't appropriate to be discussing in the NN. Things like how you should act towards others while in dungeons if you have a sprout with you. Things that YES I know are already in the original TOS, but things that should be defined a little more to hold Mentors accountable to their actions so that if a sprout wants to report them, awesome they have a WHOLE separate TOS they are being held to because this is a mentor interacting with a sprout. Can it be abused? Yes. Do I feel like mentors should be held to a higher standard than other players? YES. Mentors signed up to BE MENTORS. We didn't just earn the crown, it wasn't just randomly given to us, we actually had to walk our characters over to the smith, click on them, and DECIDE to BECOME a mentor. That was OUR choice, not SE, not another player, it wasn't forced on us, WE decided this. So we should be held accountable to our decision and how we act as such.

End result, I don't think there will ever be any suitable "requirements" to being a mentor that will ever fix the flaws we have in the current system, I believe the system in general should be either removed or mentors finally held accountable. Would I love to see a watering can next to my name instead? GOD YES!! However, if the crown remains, then make that crown SHINE like it should. Make the mentors what they should have been all along, shining leaders for the new players who come into Eorzea all wide eyed and excited to be there for them when they are frustrated and ready to quit. To be the hand to lead them when they are lost and need guidance. That is what a mentor SHOULD be, and we SHOULD be held accountable for our actions because we choose to be a Mentor.

[Jeeqbit]

Countless sprouts and returners get their questions answered on a daily basis in the novice network. Mentors frequently offer them assistance with queue times for their first time. It's so easy to see how many people are helped by the mentor system if you spend some time in the novice network. The system is working. It's not perfect but I'm sure it was never expected to be perfect.

A common complaint is the attitude of mentors, but this isn't really a problem with mentors but with experienced players generally, who sometimes like to force their playstyle onto others.

The Novice Network being filled with conversation is fine because it shows that it's active, but some discussions go to places they shouldn't. A minority of trade mentors are genuinely experienced with crafting and gathering and very good at answering questions related to it, but I do find trade mentors most frequently bring discussions to the Novice Network that shouldn't happen.

I've also seen a lot of trade mentors that just came from other MMOs and are echoing information they have read online word-for-word. Their knowledge doesn't come from actual experience of playing the game like it should.

If there is going to be a next step to improving the mentor system it really does need to address trade mentor requirements before anything else.

[LaughingBanana]

Im actually surprised about all this novice network being filled with toxic people and such, because in my experience it is really benign and folks in it are generally helpful and nice, and when people ask questions or for help there are always people that answer them and provide help and such.

Maybe it's because I'm in Tonberry and things are different in other worlds?

Countless sprouts and returners get their questions answered on a daily basis in the novice network. Mentors frequently offer them assistance with queue times for their first time. It's so easy to see how many people are helped by the mentor system if you spend some time in the novice network. The system is working. It's not perfect but I'm sure it was never expected to be perfect.

Yes, this is generally my experience too for the novice network.

[VelKallor]

he increase of toxicity from new mentors arriving due to the Crafting Mentor Requirements has been a thing the last month.

I have met a lot of trade mentors who would make you look very silly. They have been, and are, by far more helpful and generous.

Second option, SE needs to decide to finally put a separate Terms of Service and attach it to the Mentor System. You want to be a mentor? Awesome, this is your TOS. Have it outline things like, how you should act towards your fellow players within the Novice Network, how NN isn't a global chat, what is appropriate and isn't appropriate to be discussing in the NN. Things like how you should act towards others while in dungeons if you have a sprout with you. Things that YES I know are already in the original TOS, but things that should be defined a little more to hold Mentors accountable to their actions so that if a sprout wants to report them, awesome they have a WHOLE separate TOS they are being held to because this is a mentor interacting with a sprout. Can it be abused? Yes. Do I feel like mentors should be held to a higher standard than other players? YES. Mentors signed up to BE MENTORS. We didn't just earn the crown, it wasn't just randomly given to us, we actually had to walk our characters over to the smith, click on them, and DECIDE to BECOME a mentor. That was OUR choice, not SE, not another player, it wasn't forced on us, WE decided this. So we should be held accountable to our decision and how we act as such.

Mentors are volunteers, not employees. If I saw this id never touch mentor again.

[Krotoan]

Mentors are volunteers, not employees. If I saw this id never touch mentor again.

That would be entirely the point I believe.

Anyone who didn't agree to hold themselves to a higher standard would not be a mentor.

[Seraphor]

That would be entirely the point I believe.

Anyone who didn't agree to hold themselves to a higher standard would not be a mentor.

No. You'd just get more self-righteous narcissists who think even more highly of themselves for wearing a Mentor crown.
You can not break the rules, and superficially appear to be helping, while still being a total asshat.

People who genuinely want to help other people will not want to run the risk of being targeted for higher levels of judgement via some Mentor policing system, or leave themselves open for harassment and abuse by people who know they can just 'report' you for a nebulous claim like 'not being helpful' and get your Mentor status removed.

[Krotoan]

No. You'd just get more self-righteous narcissists who think even more highly of themselves for wearing a Mentor crown.
You can not break the rules, and superficially appear to be helping, while still being a total asshat.

People who genuinely want to help other people will not want to run the risk of being targeted for higher levels of judgement via some Mentor policing system, or leave themselves open for harassment and abuse by people who know they can just 'report' you for a nebulous claim like 'not being helpful' and get your Mentor status removed.

It's silly to think that a system like that would be an "ooops I made one person mad, now i'm no longer a mentor" thing.

I'm very interested as to why you in particular are so very negative about putting restrictions and checks on who is a mentor. You don't need a mentor tag to help people. I used to do it all the time before we got the system.

The whole purpose of a checks and review system is so that someone can review what you did after you get so many reports and see that "oh yeah.. that person IS being a jerk even though they're technically helping, maybe we shouldn't have them in the system". If someone wants to feel superior about themselves and they do so by genuinely helping people and not antagonizing anyone.. let em.

[MsQi]

How about requirements that are actually relevant to mentoring?