Tired of Zenos (spoilers)

[KizuyaKatogami]

I wouldn't say that's her shtick, it's just been a thing in Shadowbringers, since the focus has been on making the Ascians more sympathetic. She also didn't single-handedly write Shadowbringers, and she's previously written other stories for the game that are entirely different.



Could you explain how you feel Ascians had depth before? Before Shadowbringers I never really saw any motivation for their actions beyond "we like chaos and want to bring our evil god back", which didn't seem too deep to me.
I'm not really sure how you feel Elidibus was a repeat of Emet-Selch either, they felt like fundamentally different characters with different motivations to me. Sure, they both had sad stories, but otherwise they were completely different. Emet-Selch was motivated by his memories of happier days, Elidibus couldn't remember who he was or why he was doing what he was doing. They couldn't have been much more different in their motivations and story arcs as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love for you to elaborate, if you're up for it, I want to understand where you're coming from.

She also wrote the drk quests did she not? Which also ended up being crazy sob story. I felt the ascians had depth because ever since arr they always had a sense of mystery to them, from the things Lahabrea proclaims in prae to what Elidibus says and does in post arr. Nabri added some flavor and depth to them as well by showing us there’s still opposition among their ranks. There were always hints to what their whole idea was and that it wasn’t so black and white you just had to look deeper at things. As for Elidibus being an Emet clone, let’s see. Takes us to amaurot to show us past things, creates a dungeon for us, his trial is basically a hades copy and paste with the whole, let’s summon 7 wol, oh yeah and let’s have a panic button in the middle of the fight where he almost wins and then oh no a plot convenience happens. And then he’s defeated with a big light beam. As for Elidibus himself, you could tell his character was absolutely rushed. They pulled out so many plot holes and plot conveniences to rush and get rid of him. The memory loss was a total asspull considering his dialogue in ARR and it just seemed like an excuse to have shitty fanservice as a trial. They gave him only 2 patches to try and flesh out his character and failed miserably, whereas we have zenos now who’s had more screen time than him and he’s only been around since 4.0 whereas Elidibus has been around since 2.0.

[MarsAstro]

I also just want to point out that I see way more likes for people with complaints and negative outlooks, than those with positive outlooks.

Seems to be a lot of pessimism for what's to come. It's almost like some people in here want Endwalker to be bad.

Unfortunately, Zenos has barely ever expressed interest in anything other than his next big fight. I worry that these things will be ignored going forward by virtue of none of the characters in the story caring to explore them. Actually, my biggest worry is that Hydaelyn and Zodiark will be among "these things getting ignored"—I can easily imagine us going the entirety of 6.0 with hardly a mention of either, only to have it be revealed that Zenos dealt with both offscreen.

Oh my god, why would you say that? That sounds atrocious, now I'm worried. I hope to god they have more sense than to write something like this.

So far I'm cautiously optimistic based on the announcement event but tempering expectations.

Heh.

[Lauront]

I also just want to point out that I see way more likes for people with complaints and negative outlooks, than those with positive outlooks.

It really revolves around a lot of people here (and elsewhere) having concerns about Zenos dominating 6.0, having been dragged back into the spotlight after 4.0. I'm keeping an open mind to it because there's some promising elements with Fandaniel, but I'm also not going to say I don't share some of these concerns. I mainly enjoy the Ascians in the MSQ lore. There's some other interesting stuff to me, e.g. the Ivalice plotlines, but by and large I am of course eager to see how the Ascian story is wrapped up and whether something to my liking follows it.

I don't share in the excitement for a lot of the fan fave protagonists, and especially not G'raha, so I am also keen to see how that cast will be shaping up, to see whether the game post 6.0 holds my interest story-wise. It's definitely not that any of us want EW to be bad, though.

[Rosenstrauch]

Oh my god, why would you say that? That sounds atrocious, now I'm worried. I hope to god they have more sense than to write something like this.

It is definitely a cursed take, yeah. I tend to be fairly optimistic about where the story can go, but Zenos? Zenos just provokes the pessimist in me, I guess. Even the way Elidibus was handled in 5.3—he's basically a new character altogether—didn't worry me quite as much as Zenos taking center stage over other, more interesting characters again.

On the bright side, Estinien will be joining us. I like him, and look forward to his perspective being part of the story.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I also just want to point out that I see way more likes for people with complaints and negative outlooks, than those with positive outlooks.

Seems to be a lot of pessimism for what's to come. It's almost like some people in here want Endwalker to be bad.



Oh my god, why would you say that? That sounds atrocious, now I'm worried. I hope to god they have more sense than to write something like this.



Heh.

I don’t think it’s people wanting it to be bad, it’s just the approach SE has taken so far with the story has been very....not good. They’ve started catering to the crowd as shown with Graha which yoshi p even said himself, only reason he’s alive is because the community took a liking to him. So if they’re going to pander to the crowd more, things won’t be looking good for the future. Especially because, as seen in 5.3, this pandering can cause other, more important characters to be sidelined and treated poorly(Elidibus) so that the community gets their way. Which in turn just caused needless plot holes that makes the story a mess.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I agree that there will be those people. I was responding to the statement on whether no consequence would be popular.

I think there's a difference between someone being a bad guy and someone being a bad guy for reasons we can understand (or whatever word you want to use, if you get my meaning). I think none of the other antagonists are disqualified from being bad people just because of any sympathetic quality they may engender. The WoL can be sad while still killing them anyway because they are bad.

The devs themselves say it’s a matter of perspective. It’s not black and white who’s bad or who’s good. If that was the case, WoL is bad because of how many people and creatures they kill.

[linayar]

The devs themselves say it’s a matter of perspective. It’s not black and white who’s bad or who’s good. If that was the case, WoL is bad because of how many people and creatures they kill.

If it's a matter of perspective, then we play as the WoL. So the WoL's perspective is ours.

[Theodric]

If it's a matter of perspective, then we play as the WoL. So the WoL's perspective is ours.

Not necessarily. We play the role of one particular character in the story, though that doesn't mean that they're always correct, worthy of praise or even likable. The sheer amount of innocent creatures and actual people slain at the Warrior of Light's hands for very little reason beyond being paid to do so doesn't make the character particularly heroic in my eyes.

You're free to think as much, of course - but the story is written in such a manner as to account for different perspectives and I guarantee that if the story wasn't an on rails experience and instead allowed for different factions/plot resolutions then quite a lot of people would pick different paths.

[linayar]

Not necessarily. We play the role of one particular character in the story, though that doesn't mean that they're always correct, worthy of praise or even likable. The sheer amount of innocent creatures and actual people slain at the Warrior of Light's hands for very little reason beyond being paid to do so doesn't make the character particularly heroic in my eyes.

You're free to think as much, of course - but the story is written in such a manner as to account for different perspectives and I guarantee that if the story wasn't an on rails experience and instead allowed for different factions/plot resolutions then quite a lot of people would pick different paths.

I'm not saying you have to agree with all of (or even many of) the WoL's actions. I certainly don't. But it's undeniable that the WoL is the hero of the story. And yes, heroes do not mean that they meet all standards of morality that people may have.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'm not saying you have to agree with all of (or even many of) the WoL's actions. I certainly don't. But it's undeniable that the WoL is the hero of the story. And yes, heroes do not mean that they meet all standards of morality that people may have.

Protagonist is a better word. Not hero, as many of their deeds aren’t heroic. Protag just means they’re the main character whether they’re good or bad.