ROYAL RUBY • NIGHTCLUB • BEHEMOTH/PRIMAL

[Shibi]

It's crazy from an in character perspective because within the game world's setting, 10,000 gil would be ludicrously expensive for a dzo steak even if we're talking gourmet mark ups.

Not sure it is. Let's stick to vendor gear bought from NPC's as that rules out marketboard fluctuations. A pair of level 70 Gazelleskin shoes in Kugane is G21,859. Just average work boots. https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Gazelleskin_Shoes

Let's equate that G21,859 to a rathr average pair of work boots on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Timberland-PR.../dp/B000XEX0Z0 as an example for US$95.

So, G1 = US$0.0043 (A bit under half a USA cent)

A 10,000 gil steak - served to you - is about US$43.21 based on NPC valuation.

What's a steak at a place like Outback cost? $35.00 ( https://online.flippingbook.com/view/250386/ has their menu )

So, is it really that far off the mark? It's not like Outback is Haute Cuisine, from what I hear.

[SpeckledBurd]

Not sure it is. Let's stick to vendor gear bought from NPC's as that rules out marketboard fluctuations. A pair of level 70 Gazelleskin shoes in Kugane is G21,859. Just average work boots. https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Gazelleskin_Shoes

Let's equate that G21,859 to a rathr average pair of work boots on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Timberland-PR.../dp/B000XEX0Z0 as an example for US$95.

So, G1 = US$0.0043 (A bit under half a USA cent)

A 10,000 gil steak - served to you - is about US$43.21 based on NPC valuation.

What's a steak at a place like Outback cost? $35.00 ( https://online.flippingbook.com/view/250386/ has their menu )

So, is it really that far off the mark? It's not like Outback is Haute Cuisine, from what I hear.

While it's still a gameplay abstraction to some degree, the level of gear and the level of players actually is somewhat of a measurement of character's skill. Level 70 is pretty much of the opposite of an average worker and those wouldn't be average work shoes. That's actually the gear of not just a professional, but someone who is an absolute elite in their field. Obviously this makes sense, because the person buying it at that amount, The Warrior of Light, isn't someone of average skill, they're a grandmaster craftsman.

An actual average pair of workboots in universe is more likely to be something like the Padded Leather Duckbills of Gathering which cost around 500 gil.

[Shibi]

While it's still a gameplay abstraction to some degree, the level of gear and the level of players actually is somewhat of a measurement of character's skill. Level 70 is pretty much of the opposite of an average worker and those wouldn't be average work shoes.

Have you ever phoned a plumber at 2am when your dunny clogs? Those guys can afford pentamelded aesthetes right out of their apprenticeship!

[Arrius]

Have you ever phoned a plumber at 2am when your dunny clogs? Those guys can afford pentamelded aesthetes right out of their apprenticeship!

If they ever manage to be available and are able to come around at that time, they deserve the extra charge they want from it.

[Saefinn]

Not sure it is. Let's stick to vendor gear bought from NPC's as that rules out marketboard fluctuations. A pair of level 70 Gazelleskin shoes in Kugane is G21,859. Just average work boots. https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Gazelleskin_Shoes

Let's equate that G21,859 to a rathr average pair of work boots on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Timberland-PR.../dp/B000XEX0Z0 as an example for US$95.

So, G1 = US$0.0043 (A bit under half a USA cent)

A 10,000 gil steak - served to you - is about US$43.21 based on NPC valuation.

What's a steak at a place like Outback cost? $35.00 ( https://online.flippingbook.com/view/250386/ has their menu )

So, is it really that far off the mark? It's not like Outback is Haute Cuisine, from what I hear.

And yet the most expensive steak in game is less than 500gil.

But again, it's not an IC justification here.

Take the prices you see here, and take the prices other people here have said they've been charge real gil for like 5000gil for an apple juice or another I've spotted where it's 4000gil for tea. Then take a look at price lists of venues that don't charge real gil. You'll find a big difference in prices. Typically you'd see around the 500gil range, some low balling to less than 100gil, the highest I've seen is around for 1,500 and that was for a very substantial meal.

At the end of the day the prices are designed to make money from players and are not based on in world logic or in-character logic.

Getting a lot of gil isn't really all that hard. You can find a venue that doesn't charge for drinks/food, you can discuss the RP idea with the venue operators to see if they'll play along with your RP concept. You can define new elements to your character that makes him more stingy. That seems to be creating a problem when there are obvious solutions. I don't really charge for food and drinks at my venue because I don't like putting that kind of effort into accepting gil. I'll just let people tip, and all our food is an in-RP offering anyways without the inventory clutter.

In this hypothetical situation I'd get turned away by one of these bars. Given the OP complained about how scarce and difficult it is to get RP on those datacentres, turning away a legit RPer with a legit character concept because they don't have the real gil to pay for RP would exclude me from RP until I could raise sufficient funds to play that character concept. Especially if it was a new character on a data centre I don't have access to money I have here (if talking specifically me) or if say it was a new or newish player doing this. Or somebody who didn't have money making down or heck, didn't fancy siphoning off lots of real gil away because their character is so frivolous.

I would have to seek out free venues like you mention, but from what the OP is saying and other posters are saying, charge high prices with real gil is the norm, so it sounds like my choice of free venues would be limited. Either way, it doesn't feel like a positive thing at all for this being the norm.

[Shibi]

And yet the most expensive steak in game is less than 500gil.

Clearly the chefs selling Fillet of Eft (Eft-Fil-A?) need to attend the same business school as the shoemakers!

[Saefinn]

Clearly the chefs selling Fillet of Eft (Eft-Fil-A?) need to attend the same business school as the shoemakers!

It still doesn't give IC justification for an item that:

- In Eorzea wouldn't be as expensive
- If sold by a venue that doesn't charge real gil would be sold for a lot less
- Isn't seemingly sold on the market board for near as much (but we know what the MB is like, people will over charge if they can)
- Costs nowhere as much to make
- But has a mark up that seems typical of venues trying to make real gil off of RPers and coincidentally is using real gil

It don't take a lot to figure out that the price isn't based on in character logic but is based on making money off of RPers logic. Nothing is stopping them from doing it and they're free to even if I disagree with it, but let's not pretend it's anything else
Heck even the OP has said they've based their prices on other venues who charge and that their market research was based on said other venues and took a very business like corporate mentality when looking what to charge real Gil for.



What he didn't do was look at what would be a fair price within the game's world, make reference to what would seem reasonable to a venue set in Eorzea. It very clearly has no in character justification.

My initial argument was that if it's the "best immersive experience" wouldn't the prices be more sensible to what you might expect when immersing yourself into an Eorzean setting? But ultimately they've taken a business mindset from the point of selling RP experiences and not from a business mindset within the frame of Eorzea. That's what they've set out to do, so I don't see any reason to try to make IC justifications for something not done for IC reasons.

[Shibi]

Nothing is stopping them from doing it and they're free to even if I disagree with it, but let's not pretend it's anything else

I'm actually not pretending anything.

Nobody is forcing anyone to attend said roleplay venue and eat a meal. If they get people who do, bully for them.

My initial argument was that if it's the "best immersive experience" wouldn't the prices be more sensible to what you might expect when immersing yourself into an Eorzean setting?

And that's sort of the point we have been discussing, no? The prices charged by NPCs are all over the place. 2 Steaks per Doman Enclave Restoration; 6 steaks per Dragonskin map. A steak being $40 if you take level 70 shoes, but a few hundred USD if you take the lower levels.

And when you boil it down, what even is "real gil"? The stuff falls from the skies without even trying. Roleplay a strip club in Secondlife and you are spending real hard currency from your bank account, some reports over US$100 a night in tips.... but "real gil"? Unless you are buying it from a gold seller, it's stuff you stole from the pockets of the last Garlean you killed.

[Saefinn]

I'm actually not pretending anything.

Nobody is forcing anyone to attend said roleplay venue and eat a meal. If they get people who do, bully for them.

I never said they were. Heck, I even said it's their prerogative to run it like this, I'm not telling them that they "can't" do it either.

But OP makes the complaint that the situation for RP on these data centers is that it's really hard to find whilst also gatekeeping RP behind a payment wall.

Others make the complaint that people on these data centers have discovered RP is an easy way to make money and exploit it for that.

The people making that complaint and the OP themselves say it's the norm. If it is the norm rather than exception to the rule, then RPers on those datacenters don't have a lot of choice going for them without paying gil. And of course a part of the challenge of finding a venue to RP at that suits your character and runs at times you're available. Heck if it's the norm, they might not even know any better.

The alternative then is to pay for a server transfer to come here to Crystal where the vast majority of it is free. But they're not likely to do that if their friends, statics and so on are on their data center.

And that's sort of the point we have been discussing, no? The prices charged by NPCs are all over the place. 2 Steaks per Doman Enclave Restoration; 6 steaks per Dragonskin map. A steak being $40 if you take level 70 shoes, but a few hundred USD if you take the lower levels.

And when you boil it down, what even is "real gil"? The stuff falls from the skies without even trying. Roleplay a strip club in Secondlife and you are spending real hard currency from your bank account, some reports over US$100 a night in tips.... but "real gil"? Unless you are buying it from a gold seller, it's stuff you stole from the pockets of the last Garlean you killed.

Whilst we are discussing IC justification. The point was on the OP offering "the best immersive experience" and the point I argue is that in world consideration for the price point would come into account for immersion, which we've established hasn't and that's by the OP's admission. And it would come into account because venues who aren't thinking about how much they can charge players often think about what is a reasonable price point because ICly having a price point adds to the immersion. But a lot of places don't even use a pricelist, so it's not a requirement but I feel there are points here that sacrifice immersion as oppose to just not accommodate certain immersive points.

Heck if they justified it in the way you have and took your interpretation, I'd probably think it's a bit much, but I'd roll with it because you've put in game world thought into it rather than thinking about how much you can charge players to roleplay, especially if I'm not being expected to pay in game gil for it, and it'd be rude of me otherwise. This is because one thing you accept in public RP is that people don't always follow the same logic, aren't always on the same and it's question of how you deal with that and for most things, you roll with it because it's not a big deal and if needs be, you can adjust it in your own headcanon.

The being charged is also the second issue of immersion IMO (easy to let slide if it's tiny amounts), but by these standards your character's wealth is determined or influenced by how much gil you have in game. EG: 2 weeks ago, our bar had a guest who was in good spirits with the gil ICly to spare offered to pay the bar's drinks all night (heck, the boss of the company I work does this at Christmas IRL). According to what venues like this one prices at he'd have to cough up a huge amount of gil, which would have hindered the character's intentions. This is why I posed this hypothetical situation because it's one that has happened more than once at our venue.

But yes, prices do inflate from a gamification point of view. Which is why it makes more sense to look at average items as a base price for comparison, which is what I think people tend to do when they price stuff. Hence normally we don't see regular non-charging venues list items so high. Again bringing it back to the dzo steak, at what's being charged would mean my characters from the azim steppe could make a fortune hunting dzo.

But heck level 70 boots if anything aren't average work boots, we'd probably not have a real world equivalent because no work boots exist that can improve your crafting skill.

It's designer stuff in the real world is where you tend to see the inflation, so Jimmy Choos worker boots can cost around £1000. I can also get a pair of worker boots from Matalan for £7, they probably won't be very good, but an average pair might be £20. So the huge price jumps do exist in the real world too. But of course, is no comparison, because again, the kind of boots in Eorzea you're buying don't have an equivalent.