Blue mage shouldnt be "Limited"

[Koka-Kola]

the fact that I have never met a blue mage that could out dps another caster is "laughable" without using missile, insta kills, and non potency based spells. A level 70 scholar 's healing can out perform any blue mage healing spell combo. A level 70 paladin can out tank a 70 blue mage easily. White wind scales with current health. its cost is higher than most heal so it's not spammable. As blue mages health rises, so does the other classes. quite "laughable" to think blue mage healing would cause a problem since other classes perform outside their roles.

diamond back does not cause any mp regen and costs 3000 mp. you cannot move or heal or cancel the spell early.

white wind at 50% isn't enough to factor in its cost to be used more than twice (keep in mind it's limited range)

Most debuffs dont work on boss their enemies and even some trash enemies.

most blue dots do not stack, more heavy attacks have a 60-120 second cooldown and even share cooldowns with other attacks.



I fail to see how blue mage is broken from its dps and utility and I fail to see the joke that makes it "laughable."

[HyoMinPark]

white wind at 50% isn't enough to factor in its cost to be used more than twice (keep in mind it's limited range)

Just want to point out that BLU’s White Wind radius is 15 yalms...which is the same as WHM’s Medica, AST’s Helios and Aspected Helios, and SCH’s Succor and Indom. The only heal that has a higher range is Medica II, which is 20 yalms. (AST’s Horoscope is also 20 yalms, but you have to get hit by Helios/A.Helios for it to buff it up to the more potent Horoscope Helios, and they’re still 15 yalms.)

[Mikey_R]

I fail to see how blue mage is broken from its dps and utility and I fail to see the joke that makes it "laughable."

There is a video recently showing BLU beating Rath EX solo. I don't want to link it as it does show a parser, however, this does give me the benefit of looking at the BLU DPS.

Level 70 BLU maintaining ~16K-17K DPS before they stall for cooldowns and Rathalos' second phase with bursts of ~32K DPS this is without echo as well.

For SB, DPS values are at about 5K - 5.2K bear in mind this is based on last floor omega savage, looking at the top averages of the jobs, so numbers might potentially be higher on an individua basis, however, it will still serve to show how strong BLU DPS is compared to equal levelled DPS. You can pretty much call BLU about 3 times stronger and bear in mind, in the vid, they are using healer mimicry.

Extend this to 4 DPS and suddenly you have what is effectively 12 DPS attacking a boss. Sure, keep your healers and tanks, however, as they currently stand, they will absolutely destroy bosses. Assuming they can stay at about 3 times stronger, if they were level 80, they would be doing in excess of over 60K DPS per BLU.

I may not play BLU much, however, these are the numbers presented and based on this alone you can tell it will break things.

They also used Exuviation under healer minicry, it healed for ~21K, their max HP is about 47K. If you have 2 healer BLUs doing that, it is basically a full heal for the party and it only costs 200 MP. Then Gobguard, a shield equivalent to 250 cure potency (healer mimicry), which, based off the exuviation heal amount, is about a 17K shield. That is ~1/3 of the BLU max HP. Again, it only costs 200 MP. You should be able to heal just fine with BLU and do massive damage as well.

I have nothing to compare the defensive prowess of BLU and an actual tank, however, at this point does it really matter? You have DPS BLU doing massive damage, Healer BLU doing massive damage AND have very effective ways to heal and mitigate raidwide damage. At this point, it doesn't matter what the tank does, it's contribution is going to be minimal at best.....unless you can swap it out for a BLU.

This same person also done a solo clear of Lakshmi Extreme as a BLU, they did have 25% echo, however, no other job could do this at level 70. I suspect more videos will be coming out by this same person doing other trials, howver, I think the point has been proven. BLU as it stands is far too broken to be at max level and do current content.

[SpiralMask]

@OP: i agree, and know that there's plenty of avenues to bring the class more in-line with others to actually facilitate party and overworld play, but as of this update (with various role-QoL and instinct being added) i'm pretty sure the nail's in that coffin.

despite mime being introduced and explicitly stated as literally better than blue mage at being a blue mage due to being both instant acquisition and not limited to monsters--and the only reason you can even square off against it is due to the difference in personal combat experience rather than some unique aspect of blue magic itself (and therefore reason for the class itself to exist outside of some lesser-developed part of the aforementioned Ur-class), i don't forsee blue mage ever being allowed to play with the "real" classes (or so much as do msq or NG+ because why would anything nice ever happen), or put any sort of work whatsoever into the complete lack of player networking options for the class' instanced content requirements now that instinct has been added.

it was added to appease people who'd begged for it since the game's launch, implemented in the most tooth-pulling method possible of all the myriad possible paths they could have taken for it's design (monsters immune to 85% of your spells after 2 applications if they're not already totally immune to begin with, ironic lack of diversity despite the sheer number of options available, said spells are deemed from on high to be Too Overpowered To Play With Real People, the element system was wholesale removed from the game two expansions before it's addition and the content that DOES have it is explicitly banned from BLU), and now had just enough bandaids applied to player concerns that they never really have to touch it again--i mean hey, at least it now lives up to it's advertisement of being a solo-oriented class (except that solo-oriented side content is still barring them from entering so it doesn't really matter)!

my favorite class only serves to make me depressed, and the one i've mained due to it's lack of existence before then has been repeatedly throatpunched as well (though mercifully not as thoroughly as AST, who has literally suffered a triple lobotomy now). not a great time.

thouh as a funny side-note, it's hilarious to me that BLU has more primal spells than SMN at this point, despite that being the latter's whole singular shtick.

[Koka-Kola]

I feel you. I really do.

[Koka-Kola]

does this person have a name? I would love to watch it since every blue mage group I have ran with MUST be incompetent.

Most damage mitigation comes at a cost. as for soloing goes, blue mage has a spell called "basic instinct" here is what it does:
Increases movement speed by 30%, and healing magic potency and damage dealt by 100%. Also ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Mighty Guard.
Can only be used in duties intended for two or more players while playing alone, while no other party members are in the instance, or when all party members are incapacitated. Effect ends when joined by one or more party members.
Mighty Guard is the tank stance that reduces damage taken by 40% and damage dealt by 40% with the combination of the two it is fairly easy to solo content. however extremes on the other hand are harder but with the combination of the two, I can see it possible. however these two skills are not viable (nor usable as mighty guard serves no actual purpose in group play unless there is no tank.)

in group play blue mage is lack luster.

blue heals have short range compared to healers (and can hardly heal unless mimic healer and can burn through mp)

blue tanks done have enough survivability (without burning through all mp and spamming diamond back resulting in lack of agro)

blue dps is amazing solo (solo buffs)but in groups, seems below average.

[Koka-Kola]

does this person have a name? I would love to watch it since every blue mage group I have ran with MUST be incompetent.

Most damage mitigation comes at a cost. as for soloing goes, blue mage has a spell called "basic instinct" here is what it does:
Increases movement speed by 30%, and healing magic potency and damage dealt by 100%. Also ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Mighty Guard.
Can only be used in duties intended for two or more players while playing alone, while no other party members are in the instance, or when all party members are incapacitated. Effect ends when joined by one or more party members.
Mighty Guard is the tank stance that reduces damage taken by 40% and damage dealt by 40% with the combination of the two it is fairly easy to solo content. however extremes on the other hand are harder but with the combination of the two, I can see it possible. however these two skills are not viable (nor usable as mighty guard serves no actual purpose in group play unless there is no tank.)

in group play blue mage is lack luster.

blue heals have short range compared to healers (and can hardly heal unless mimic healer and can burn through mp)

blue tanks done have enough survivability (without burning through all mp and spamming diamond back resulting in lack of agro)

blue dps is amazing solo (solo buffs)but in groups, seems below average.

so without basic instinct buff, the parse would be cut in half. it would be 16k burst dps and 7-8k stall dps. comparing it to stormblood, average dps for a caster would be 10-14k. With that said, most casters can also out heal for a fraction of the cost of blue mages white wind. Thay can also out heal single target heals blue mage has.
blues aoe heals also have a shorter radius compared to healers and are ineffective unless in healer role.

blue mage isnt over powered, it parses less than last expansions dps (without the solo play buff) its heals are not as powerful unless you go full healer(then they can heal but not as good as an actual healer) and blue mage tank constantly loses agro (on the fact that they spam diamond back as often as they can before running out of mp and dying.)

if you have doubts, play blue mage on lvl 70 sync and see if you can out dps another caster.

[ForteNightshade]

so without basic instinct buff, the parse would be cut in half. it would be 16k burst dps and 7-8k stall dps. comparing it to stormblood, average dps for a caster would be 10-14k. With that said, most casters can also out heal for a fraction of the cost of blue mages white wind. Thay can also out heal single target heals blue mage has.
blues aoe heals also have a shorter radius compared to healers and are ineffective unless in healer role.

blue mage isnt over powered, it parses less than last expansions dps (without the solo play buff) its heals are not as powerful unless you go full healer(then they can heal but not as good as an actual healer) and blue mage tank constantly loses agro (on the fact that they spam diamond back as often as they can before running out of mp and dying.)

if you have doubts, play blue mage on lvl 70 sync and see if you can out dps another caster.

Several things are wrong with your assessments here. Let's start with the Casters healing. Black Mage has no healing options. Summon has Phoenix every two minutes which applies a fairly insignificant regen. It's decent but nothing that will save you unless stacked. Red Mage has Vercure, which cripples its DPS if spammed and isn't potent enough to warrant. Blue Mage can adapt far better to healing because even without the Healer mimicry, it's simply better.

Which segues nicely into why Blue Mage is, indeed, overpowered. It isn't good at one singular thing. It can adapt to everything. If you watch Blue Mage vids on yotube clearing O12S, they Diamond Back every major mechanic. This completely negates what is otherwise the hardest part of Final Omega. White Wind renders any intense healing phase a joke because a DPS can become a superior healer. It's the equivalent of giving Dragoon Medica on steroids. Sure, it's a DPS loss but at 50% or higher, it's a full heal for the entire party. Simply having two Blue Mages rotating that will trivialize practically any fight.

Even if a Black Mage could, theoretically out DPS Blue Mage. It can't survive any level 70 content on its own whereas Blue Mage can even without Basic Instinct. Allowing Blue Mage into parties as a regular job, makes undeniably the best DPS out of sheer versatility.

[ItMe]

Which segues nicely into why Blue Mage is, indeed, overpowered. It isn't good at one singular thing. It can adapt to everything. If you watch Blue Mage vids on yotube clearing O12S, they Diamond Back every major mechanic. This completely negates what is otherwise the hardest part of Final Omega. White Wind renders any intense healing phase a joke because a DPS can become a superior healer. It's the equivalent of giving Dragoon Medica on steroids. Sure, it's a DPS loss but at 50% or higher, it's a full heal for the entire party. Simply having two Blue Mages rotating that will trivialize practically any fight.

Even if a Black Mage could, theoretically out DPS Blue Mage. It can't survive any level 70 content on its own whereas Blue Mage can even without Basic Instinct. Allowing Blue Mage into parties as a regular job, makes undeniably the best DPS out of sheer versatility.

Oh my god spelled out like that...
BLU might not dominate the DPS slots. It might still get out damaged by dedicated DPS.
But for the other roles... tanks and healers might just disappear from harder content. 14 is a game about putting out damage, and if BLU can be a tank or a healer AND put out near DPS numbers...

[SpiralMask]

i wonder if the team who designed and implemented the problematic tank and healer skills in the first place might have any idea whatsoever on how to balance those skills down to normal character ranges--tuning potencies down where needed, making %-based effects into conditional potency-based effects (white wind into something akin to AST's essential dignity), tuning down the various stances to be less hyperinflated in their bonuses...

before the most recent patch healer and tank stance were vestigial enough that they could be removed entirely (lacking many key skills to support even the most basic toolkit, and only really propped up by their inflated numbers under those stances). as of now that's a bit stickier after tanks finally got a pair of proper mitigation options and healers finally got a regen, completing the quadfecta of spamheal-shield-regen-emergencyheal of the most essential basic parts for a healer class (though once again coasting on their inflated potencies).
ironically BLU's lack of reduntant healing on top of redundant healing makes healing as a BLU much more engaging compared to other healers, since they actually have a downtime activity in their DPS (an aspect that was stripped away from AST in their cards and SCH in their dot management, and simply didnt exist for WHM at all) and have to actually pick the proper healing response to the situation at hand rather than just tapping one of their 3+ free options to do so and sitting bored for the rest of the fight (it's a real shame that blu cant really make use of this comparatively fun option in any content that actually matters, with real people).