Monks need a projectile!

[Kolsykol]

Meditation is your "can't hit the boss" button. It's approximately 200 potency / GCD. This is your fallback.

All other melee fallbacks are about 120-150 potency / GCD, and break combos.

Whether meditation / chakra should feature earlier in the leveling scheme is another discussion.

Yes, but like I said they charge up really fast and you most likely already have some and don't start charging up from 0.
Then you have Anatman ( no one likes it, booo ).
Keep in mind too that Chakra was meant for this at first, but then they were reworked but we got nothing really to compensate for that other than Anatman.
If we lived in the past I'd agree with you but Chakra's work differently now and charge way faster.

I think this is something you maybe don't realize until it happens, but I've been playing SAM and NIN a lot lately too and it made me realize ( even Tanks have a projectile too, when I said melee I included them too it's literally only Monk ).
For example in The Heroe's Gauntlet the bosses constantly force you to move away for longer periods of time, sometimes you can position yourself so you can keep hitting but it's not always the case and you pretty quickly start doing more damage with a projectile spam over Six Sided Strike or Anatman channel to keep Twin Snakes.

Granted, most people I see don't even use their projectile they just stand there doing nothing not even using their channels etc.
But it's still a tool at everyones disposal except Monk, even just in terms of fun.

Altho I'd personally rather take what I mentioned in the OP too, a backflip Enlightenment free Shoulder Tackle charge combo.
Heck Six Sided Strike could become the backflip if they won't do anything else with it next expansion, I just think it's something that makes a whole lot of thematic sense for Monk and also adds a lot of flavor and fun.
It's obviously not at the top of my priority list, but it's still something that I realized when playing SAM and NIN more.

Monk's current design makes this extremely inconsistent though. With Chakra currently being RNG without overhead between it being capped and being usable is inherently at odds with Meditation being the projectile skill equivalent. Chakra amounts will vary when you disengage, so if you disengage with an empty or mostly empty Chakra gauge you can make good use of the downtime, whereas if you have to disengage with a nearly full bar or if your final GCD when you disengage caps you're severely limited or can't do anything at all.

It also leaves Monk without a means of spot pulling in solo content or leveling, which isn't important at end game but can impact the leveling experience or the ability to do side content like PotD solo.

They need to severely overhaul Chakra no matter what because it is definitely the worst designed gauge in the game and Meditation being Monk's answer to other Job's having actual projectile skills only contributes to that.

The solo thing is another good point too, it's something else that I realized in the Bozjan Southern Front.
It's like '' wow, I can't pull one by one I have to just charge in or try to awkwardly bait them ''.

[Nothv13]

Granted, most people I see don't even use their projectile they just stand there doing nothing not even using their channels etc.
But it's still a tool at everyones disposal except Monk, even just in terms of fun.

Because the projectiles for at least SAM and DRG break their combo

[Kolsykol]

Because the projectiles for at least SAM and DRG break their combo

I am obviously not referring to situations where it's disadvantageous.
There are phases in this game where you're away from the boss for a longer time but is still in range to use your projectile.

Hi,

Let's get one thing out of the way: Monk is a mess.
I understand your frustration. I have seen Monk change through expansions since
2.3. In my humble opinion, though, I don't think a ranged attack really makes sense for the job.

Dragoon: It's a dragon. It has a spear. Spears are sometimes thrown
Ninja: This class has knives. Nuff said.
Samurai: Ranged Samurai attacks are common.. You see it all the time in Japanese anime.
... But Monk? I suppose 'Chi Blast' makes sense, but we kind of got something like that with the
Chakra AOE attack, and I'm REALLY glad that we got another AOE ability to begin with.

But even if we had a 'spammable' 'Chi Blast'.. I think it would feel wrong lol
because most of our attacks would be hard hitting and something we could
spam would feel like it's simply a filler for the sake of a filler which I can't get behind.
I mean our weakest standalone attack must be Shoulder Tackle which isn't
weak at all because it aims to get us within reach of things to punch. The entire job
makes you feel like you're a deadly weapon when you get within reach of things.

Even though we lack a ranged attack.. I don't have an issue keeping up with DPS. If
you really feel like the job is incomplete, then... Maybe you'd be better suited for DRG or SAM.

I've played Monk since ARR, I am not new to Monk if I wanted to play something else then I would.
It's not about keeping up with dps either it's about your toolset and how it plays in practice.
Why can't you get behind something being there for the sake of being a filler when everyone else has it and it brings actual utility both in solo and group content?
That's what Anatman and what Chakras used to be and still are to some extent too, only without a lot of the utility projectiles bring and really underwhelming and boring.

Monks also aren't known for hitting hard, we're known for hitting fast.
Projectiles are also an iconic move in fighting games as well as Anime, I fail to see why it'd be out of play for Monk.

Edit: And yes Dragoons have Spears/ Halberds, but they don't carry a gigantic bag of them on their backs.
I dunno why you're trying to argue that as a point.

Monk already does have a projectile too in Enlightenment and technically Elixir Field just not in the way I am talking about so it's already there do you think it's out of place too?

I do miss Howling Fist lol... But Rockbreaker is basically the kicking version of that so xD

Rockbreaker isn't a kick?
It's also purely an AoE ability.

[Nothv13]

I am obviously not referring to situations where it's disadvantageous.
There are phases in this game where you're away from the boss for a longer time but is still in range to use your projectile.

Yes, and most of them don't last long enough to be worth breaking your combo, thus you don't use your ranged. For example, the DRG's ranged ability is so bad guides literally tell you to take it off the bar.

[ssunny2008]

There are phases in this game where you're away from the boss for a longer time but is still in range to use your projectile.

Could you give some examples?

I personally can´t remember any mechanic of recent fights where some of the following steps is not possible and enough to "sit out" the disengage without any DPS loss.

- SSS
- SSS + dash
- SSS + chakra (especially if SSS is bad timed)
- GCD move out, move in, GCD
- GCD (best bootshine, move out, Formshift, move in again with DK to buff your BS again and to unleash it faster
- Chakra spam only for 0,5s gaps

Monk has probably the most different ways to deal with disengages, meanwhile all other melees has backjumps / teleport or their range attacks.

It might be another thing, if you play really old content sync without some of the new tools, but even there i can´t remember mechanics which force you sooo long away from the boss, that you would lose tons of damage.

[Kolsykol]

Yes, and most of them don't last long enough to be worth breaking your combo, thus you don't use your ranged. For example, the DRG's ranged ability is so bad guides literally tell you to take it off the bar.

I think I've been pretty clear that I am talking about niche situations ( AND SOLO CONTENT ), it's the same with Tanks pulling bosses far away from you when you need to stand somewhere else for a phase revolving around stacks for example.
A lot of these situations are just out of your hands and avoidable but happen anyway because people don't normally communicate with mics and min-max.
Sure in a min-max groups and groups with more communication it's going to be even more limited, but if you're pugging in particular you can't always rely on the tank positioning the boss perfectly for max uptime.
For example in Delubrum Reginae recently I had a tank that dragged the Phantom boss around way too early and all of the melee were being dragged behind missing out on Trick Attack window uptime even tho the movement phase was far away.

You also need to remember that you're not always in the middle of a combo either, a lot of the time when you're moving away from the boss you've just finished a combo.
So what's the point then in not attacking?

Could you give some examples?

I personally can´t remember any mechanic of recent fights where some of the following steps is not possible and enough to "sit out" the disengage without any DPS loss.

- SSS
- SSS + dash
- SSS + chakra (especially if SSS is bad timed)
- GCD move out, move in, GCD
- GCD (best bootshine, move out, Formshift, move in again with DK to buff your BS again and to unleash it faster
- Chakra spam only for 0,5s gaps

Monk has probably the most different ways to deal with disengages, meanwhile all other melees has backjumps / teleport or their range attacks.

It might be another thing, if you play really old content sync without some of the new tools, but even there i can´t remember mechanics which force you sooo long away from the boss, that you would lose tons of damage.

I'll acknowledge that most of these cases where a projectile ends up being really beneficial are when the tank is pulling weird shenanigans but the difference is still that others have something for that.
Everything isn't perfect all the time, there's a lot of problems that are essentially player created because people don't play perfectly all the time.
My overall point is just that it's a utility tool that EVERY melee in the entire game tanks included has except Monk and that it'd also add some flavor and solo utility.
I am not saying that it's a super important thing that is going to make a really noticable difference in your damage, it's more about fun and a bit of extra rather than it being a super ultra necessary thing.

[ssunny2008]

I'll acknowledge that most of these cases where a projectile ends up being really beneficial are when the tank is pulling weird shenanigans but the difference is still that others have something for that.
Everything isn't perfect all the time, there's a lot of problems that are essentially player created because people don't play perfectly all the time.
My overall point is just that it's a utility tool that EVERY melee in the entire game tanks included has except Monk and that it'd also add some flavor and solo utility.
I am not saying that it's a super important thing that is going to make a really noticable difference in your damage, it's more about fun and a bit of extra rather than it being a super ultra necessary thing.

I understand your point, but i still can´t see a range attack on MNK, just for the fact that it doesn´t fit the class in my eyes. I don´t want Son Goku here y know? ^^

And yes, mistakes can and will happen. But those are mistakes and in the case of other classes, those range attacks will interrupt your rotation. Tanks don´t even have a hard life anymore, they´re dumb to play and i main tank on my main char so... If they do it mistake once, it should be forgiven. But if they miss to position a boss properly, then it´s a bad tank or just trolls the group on purpose. The solution is, that he needs to improve or deserves a kick. It´s the sad truth. There is more than enough time between any mechanics and in the most cases, the boss will port anyway.

That said, i can´t even see any real use for a range ability unless you want to pick add per add out of nowhere. But that is not really needed anywhere in FF14. In the current situation, you can stack chakra anyway.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I understand your point, but i still can´t see a range attack on MNK, just for the fact that it doesn´t fit the class in my eyes. I don´t want Son Goku here y know? ^^

You may not want Son Goku (Dragon Ball Z and onward is pretty extreme), but he is probably closer to where the Monk needs to be in Final Fantasy than Karate Kid. Final Fantasy VI's Sabin/Mash is where the Monk should be and he had several of them.

That said, i can´t even see any real use for a range ability unless you want to pick add per add out of nowhere. But that is not really needed anywhere in FF14.

Of the top of my head:

• PotD and HoH - single target ranged attacks are very good for pulling apart packs
• Titania EX - Growth and Brambles - the dps get separated from the tanks, healers and boss by a wall of thorns for close to 15 seconds
• E3S - Temporary Currents on Split platforms - Every set has near dodge and one far dodge
• Bozja - Several of the CEs have extended AoE periods where the boss is targetable but out of melee range but within "ranged" range.
• Anamnesis Anyder - Final Boss Add spawns - Monks (and other melees) always seem to have trouble with stopping her adds from spawning as they refuse to stand on top of the spawn points

There are likely a lot more places were a viable gcd ranged attack would be useful.

In the current situation, you can stack chakra anyway.

Only to a certain point. It only takes between 1s and 5s to cap Chakra. If a mechanic forces you away longer there is no really much else to do that is engaging..

[Morzy]

I am obviously not referring to situations where it's disadvantageous.
There are phases in this game where you're away from the boss for a longer time but is still in range to use your projectile.

I've played Monk since ARR, I am not new to Monk if I wanted to play something else then I would.
It's not about keeping up with dps either it's about your toolset and how it plays in practice.
Why can't you get behind something being there for the sake of being a filler when everyone else has it and it brings actual utility both in solo and group content?
That's what Anatman and what Chakras used to be and still are to some extent too, only without a lot of the utility projectiles bring and really underwhelming and boring.

I don't like the 'everyone else has it' argument.

Chakras are ok since they could be used as a single target or AOE. It's probably the best thing we've had since 50 tbh..
I didn't even play Monk during SB because to me SE were running it into the ground..

Honestly Monk at level 50 was perfect. Our level 60 action is basically Steel Peak, level 70 action helps Chakras which is ok I guess, and our level 80 action is again underwhelming.

There was a time just after HW where Monk was semi-ok, Dragon Kick was kind of useful for at the end of a fight (unless you don't time it PERFECTLY.. and end up doing a few form actions lol..)
and we were satiated with our TP issues by a Chakra using TP ability.

Monk has been a MESS for so long, and I'll be a monkey's uncle if the next thing they do is give us a weak ranged ability that is only useful in a very specific situation.