Will we ever get PvP combos in PvE?

[Mikey_R]

samurai for example you can build up 3 sen do youre signature midare and while you may see nice big numbers the bosses HP guage barely moves..

same applies to healers. My scholar only has one nuke but when your pressing that button 200 times it doesnt feel like its accomplishing anyting.. hence it feels weightless... make the nuke him 10 times harder but only press the button 20 times a fight instead of 200 and it'd feel weightier because again you'd actually see chunks of hp fall off the boss when you pressed the button.

But you cannot have a single attack taking off chunks of HP. The boss won't survive long enough to do anything meaningful otherwise. To put things into perspective, if you want a fight to last 10 mins, each party member, on average, has to do 1.25% of a bosses health per minute. You will not see chunks of a bosses HP get taken away with one attack just due to the nature of numbers.

As for LBs, it is the same issue. You start taking off significant portions of the fight. The Devs even said that LBs done too much damage in ARR, which is why they done comparatively less.

For your healer example, you want to reduce the amount of times you use your nuke to 20 from 200, okay, that's fine, but what are you going to do in the meantime? With current design, you will not be healing inbetween those casts, so you will have another spell to fill the gap. It obviously can't be as strong as your new nuke, otherwise what is the point of the nuke, but it then falls into your problem of, it isn't strong enough to 'feel impactful' so why bother.

Hopefully you can start to see why you don't physically see the bosses HP diminish when you execute your strong attack, why LBs aren't as strong as they used to be and why just making you do an attack less doesn't solve the issue of the job feel as a whole.

And to address the problem of the hits not feeling like they hit, do you really want the boss to stagger every time it gets hit? maybe only strong hits, but how strong? How will it mess with the bosses animations when they do attacks? Personally, I'm normally too focused on the mechanics to notice small details like that anyway so it wouldn't make a difference to me. Don't get me wrong, I know it can be a bit more immersive for some people, but I don't see how it can be effectively applied.

[Jeeqbit]

samurai for example you can build up 3 sen do youre signature midare and while you may see nice big numbers the bosses HP guage barely moves..

My attacks feel like they are impactful on a tank, but it depends how synced the content is. Gear can have a lot to do with it.

but also just the overall lack of weight and power to skills... when you're biggest hardest hitting skills barely even tickle a bosses HP bar they just dont feel very powerfull or impactful. recently thats even transitioned into limit breaks... especially in the alliance raid scene where yo ucan see 3 LB3s go off and the bosses HP guae barely flickers..

So you're talking about alliance raids. It would be pretty boring if we each did one attack and took 25% of its health. It would die immediately like the mob packs do.

This is why I like doing dungeons. They might be easy, but it's easy to outgear not only the content but also the other players doing it, so you feel like the most impactful person there that is doing most of the work on the bosses. The bosses are scaled to only 4 players so you can notice the health being lost a lot more.

the other thing would just be make skills feel like the y actually connect with a boss... because once again when you hit a boss with your biggest most powerfull hits and he doesnt flinch or even bat an eyelid at you wonder did he even feel it???

I feel this way about most games, especially MMOs. You just hit them, their health goes down and they don't particularly react to you. I feel they could be made to but they just aren't and it's just how games get made.

[Ultimatecalibur]

That's going to be very inefficient, and leave no room for adjusting to forced movement, but if you're not taking it into Extreme or above then you do you.

It is inefficent due more to how the macro system works than the concept. Macros can't put actions into the queue so they can't be prepushed to activate when the gcd cycles (for weapon skills and spells) or current cast completes (in the case of ogcds).

A Continuation combo macro is actually doable in 5 lines:

• /ac Continuation <t>
• /ac "Wicked Talon" <t>
• /ac "Savage Claw" <t>
• /ac "Gnashing Fang" <t>
• /micon "Gnashing Fang"

When the macro is triggered the client will first try to activate Continuation, then try to activate Wicked Talon, Savage Claw and Gnashing Fang in that order. The final line just changes it so that the macro icon and Gnashing Fang icons do the same thing. With 6 pushes with the proper timing (gcd, ogcd, gcd, ogcd, gcd, ogcd) the full combo will activate with plenty of room for movement and possibly doubleweaving but have a slight delay compared to the pressing the 4 individual buttons (GF, Con, SC, Con, WT, Con) which will queue up to go off at the earliest opportunity.

This is completely different than a 1 push macro such as:

• /ac "Gnashing Fang" <t> <wait.2>
• /ac Continuation <t> <wait.1>
• /ac "Wicked Talon" <t> <wait.2>
• /ac Continuation <t> <wait.1>
• /ac "Savage Claw" <t> <wait.2>
• /ac Continuation <t>
• /micon "Gnashing Fang"

This adds at least .5 seconds between gcds (taking 8s to complete rather than the ~6s the multi push macro and individual buttons take to complete) and prevents double weaving, but still allows movement.

[Colt47]

I mean all I want for paladin is Royal authority to turn into atonement. That doesn't need a button it's own button. They could also have the spells transform into the big hit as well.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Hope you Paladin mains are ready and thoroughly prepared to get shafted hard in 6.0. Only one ability can be pruned without Paladin giving up utility, Shield Bash, so prepare to get absolutely nothing but upgrades to your current abilities (thus not changing, or barely changing, how the job plays) or to be torn apart because some people refuse to understand just how vital combo consolidation can be to preserving a job's abilities and weaponskills. Divine Veil and Spirits Within* are two other candidates for deletion to make room for 6.0 actions. *Spirits Within may possibly upgrade into something new. No action Paladin possesses is niche except for Shield Bash and don't try to say "but Clemency" as that is as likely to be removed as Vercure is from RDM.

Same can be said for Dark Knight and a few other jobs. Most jobs don't have abilities or weaponskills that are niche anymore.

[Rilifane]

In part yeah this.

but also just the overall lack of weight and power to skills... when you're biggest hardest hitting skills barely even tickle a bosses HP bar they just dont feel very powerfull or impactful. recently thats even transitioned into limit breaks... especially in the alliance raid scene where yo ucan see 3 LB3s go off and the bosses HP guae barely flickers..

samurai for example you can build up 3 sen do youre signature midare and while you may see nice big numbers the bosses HP guage barely moves..

this is partly where ive often said combat should be slower but your skills should hit harder... it wouldbe moreengagingi think if your biggest hardest hitting skill actually took noticable chunks off a bosses HP guageee.

same applies to healers. My scholar only has one nuke but when your pressing that button 200 times it doesnt feel like its accomplishing anyting.. hence it feels weightless... make the nuke him 10 times harder but only press the button 20 times a fight instead of 200 and it'd feel weightier because again you'd actually see chunks of hp fall off the boss when you pressed the button.

the other thing would just be make skills feel like the y actually connect with a boss... because once again when you hit a boss with your biggest most powerfull hits and he doesnt flinch or even bat an eyelid at you wonder did he even feel it??? just doesnt feel particularly satisfying i guess. hitting a boss for a million damage might sound a lot.. but when the boss has a billion hp. your strongest skill hitting for a million damage is nothing..

perhaps not the greatest way ofexplaining it but theres just a big feeling of disconnect and lack of oomph. quite a few people have said similar things recently.

I understand what you mean but you're in the wrong genre.
MMOs need a lot of party content and with a party of several people constantly pummeling the boss the individual hits can't have too much of an impact or every fight would be over in under a minute. Engine and RP power are generally seperated.
A boss shouldn't be able to pummel a tank for 10min straight while being four times their size, our fancy super-powered hits should constantly make a boss topple over etc. but in reality that can't be achieved in an MMO. You have it in single-players to a degree, escpecially in action games that are generally all about feeling powerful and tearing through hordes of mobs but an MMO has to be designed differently or we would be stuck with very short fights with barely anything happening or feeling even weaker in the downtime between our fancy super-powered hits.

[Seraphor]

Hope you Paladin mains are ready and thoroughly prepared to get shafted hard in 6.0. Only one ability can be pruned without Paladin giving up utility, Shield Bash, so prepare to get absolutely nothing but upgrades to your current abilities (thus not changing, or barely changing, how the job plays) or to be torn apart because some people refuse to understand just how vital combo consolidation can be to preserving a job's abilities and weaponskills. Divine Veil and Spirits Within* are two other candidates for deletion to make room for 6.0 actions. *Spirits Within may possibly upgrade into something new. No action Paladin possesses is niche except for Shield Bash and don't try to say "but Clemency" as that is as likely to be removed as Vercure is from RDM.

Same can be said for Dark Knight and a few other jobs. Most jobs don't have abilities or weaponskills that are niche anymore.

Requiescat can transform into Confiteor when activated.
Lose Shield Bash.
Cover and Intervention need to be consolidated somehow. They're both party exclusive mitigation that take 50 gauge and can't be used together. Just give Cover the same innate damage reduction that Intervention has that persist if you go out of range so that they still get some protection, and reduce the cooldown to 30s. Or allow Sheltron to be used on party members with a different flat mitigation effect.

[White_Wolf_X]

I hope not.

[Wolwosh]

I want a few more buttons, not less.. Lots of jobs are already boring enough as is >_>

[Bright-Flower]

Hope you Paladin mains are ready and thoroughly prepared to get shafted hard in 6.0. Only one ability can be pruned without Paladin giving up utility, Shield Bash, so prepare to get absolutely nothing but upgrades to your current abilities (thus not changing, or barely changing, how the job plays) or to be torn apart because some people refuse to understand just how vital combo consolidation can be to preserving a job's abilities and weaponskills. Divine Veil and Spirits Within* are two other candidates for deletion to make room for 6.0 actions. *Spirits Within may possibly upgrade into something new. No action Paladin possesses is niche except for Shield Bash and don't try to say "but Clemency" as that is as likely to be removed as Vercure is from RDM.

Same can be said for Dark Knight and a few other jobs. Most jobs don't have abilities or weaponskills that are niche anymore.

I feel PLD is in a pretty good place as is so if they didn't get much in terms of new buttons that wouldn't really be an issue for me.