Will there be an official response about Party Finder advertising?

[Kaurhz]

Kids or minors range 14-17ish... would disregard.. even if fellowship thing, how would you ever as the founder/owner of that fellowship be able to find out?

Good, this is why I personally wouldn't allow any form of mature RP, but at the same time, I don't want to condemn them as a collective to having nothing to support their... endeavors I guess, I just don't want it to be something you find on a whim... The issue with it being in the party finder is that it is in a public space for everyone to see; be it solicited or unsolicited. Reworking the fellowship finder would allow you to fully customize your advertisement and mark it as 'NSFW' potentially. My issue pretty much entirely stems from:

#1 - Advertisements through the party finder are entirely unsolicited; that is not to say they aren't welcome, especially in the lighter form. But mature RP definitely doesn't belong in a public space, especially when the game has been designated for minors, essentially.

#2 - It is in a public space.. Goes back to the previous point really.. But to seek and find is one thing, to not seek and find is an entirely different issue.. If people seek it out then that is on them; they should understand the implication and it is generally seen as.. Not something a minor would do; on the other hand, not seeking and finding opens up people, be it mature folk or minor folk to vulnerable situations which can have significant implications, even if just online. If people see something they will want a piece or to try it, irrespective of the implications it may lead to. People are rebellious by nature, especially younger people.

My argument is that mature RP should not be in a public space where you can 'find but not be seeking', especially when it pertains to how accessible the Party Finder is. That is not to say it shouldn't be welcomed, but it should be behind tighter doors. - Sure, parental controls would help alleviate the issue, but it'd for sure be a complex endeavor to incorporate it

Just comes down to reducing the exposure that people will have to mature content 'involuntarily', and putting the hammer down so to speak.

[Breezelyn]

Until SE starts taking botting, gil sellers, and content selling via RL money means seriously, this is the LEAST of their priorities. But O M G the children are more important than game-breaking bugs, glitches, and people using third-party programs to control markets boards and buying up housing plots.

Parents should be watching over their children. It's not random players' job to babysit someone's child(ren). If it's such an issue, the parent(s) should be watching what their child is doing online and taking their own measures. If caught in 18+ venue, parents should be disciplining their children for accessing such content without their knowledge. It's not the random players' fault for engaging in roleplay they enjoy. If it's advertised as 18+, then it's a player's own fault for going in there. Children can't be trusted, and yet, parents will blame the game for exposing their spawn to such detail. Even when the warnings are there by the ESRB that Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB on their official website concerning FFXIV.

Parents should be watching their children in this day and age. Teeangers should know some common sense by then, but we all know it's not true. Just not the player's fault for some random child to walk in to their venue. Parents need to monitor their children's internet consumption if they're so concerned about 18+ things.

Though, I do agree multiple PFs of the same venue/event going on needs to be toned down. Blacklist needs to be increased for this imo.

[Kaurhz]

[U]Snip.

That is not what is even being implied, so how about refraining from the assumption that because we're complaining about this it doesn't mean we don't take issue with several other issues, one being the blatant against-ToS advertisements on the PF, the rampant botting or third-party utilities. It just so happens this particular topic has gotten traction due to another topic several days ago. Yes, they need to deal with it, but it isn't a simple endeavor since they can't prove it, and GMs aren't allowed to ban based on a hunch. Botting has come up plenty of times, as has third-party tools and utilities.

Parents should be, as should everyone else who is involved or engaging within the child. This is the most thinly-veiled excuse I've seen as pawning off responsibility or any form of issues that may arise; nobody is saying you're required to babysit. If you're RP'n inappropriately with a child, I can more than assure you, the law would vehemently disagree and say you have a large responsibility of refraining from such activities and routinely exercising caution. It's simply not feasible for an adult to police every single activity, at least not without wholly indulging in the activity themselves. Granted they should have involvement, but it is simply impractical without being absurdly invasive, so the responsibility lies with everyone here.

Again, the law would disagree on who has the responsibility, especially if something does occur. Adults should behave like adults, and that includes exercising caution when being involved with minors. Doing inappropriate things will be as much of the persons' fault as it is the parents' lack of caution. You are all equally responsible.

Parents have the responsibility of ensuring the safety of the child from a general standpoint. Square has the responsibility of ensuring that sufficient measures have been taken to protect the child through necessary policies and procedures. Hence why many social networking platforms specify community standards guideline, which encompasses the safety of a child/minor. Including that which is specified "The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.". Each individual player/person has the responsibility of upholding any clauses and behaving appropriately.

[Breezelyn]

Parents should be, as should everyone else who is involved or engaging within the child. This is the most thinly-veiled excuse I've seen as pawning off responsibility or any form of issues that may arise; nobody is saying you're required to babysit.

How it is a 'thinly-veiled' excuse? I fail to see how asking parents to keep their children in check as an excuse. Parents and their offspring are responsible for what they consume on the internet. People have access to more tools than when the internet was brand-spanking new. I do agree that everything CANNOT be policed, but most of it can be with parental controls, changing wifi/network passwords, blocking adult-like websites from being accessed, etc. Parents should be at least a bit aware of what their child is doing on the internet.

If you're RP'n inappropriately with a child, I can more than assure you, the law would vehemently disagree and say you have a large responsibility of refraining from such activities and routinely exercising caution.

I agree to a certain extent. However, how can one know one is a "child" when people can lie about their age? People assume you're over 18+ when entering the venues, so you have to give these roleplayers a bit of breathing room. Fake their entire life because of being anonymous on the internet? Yeah, it might sound like a lame excuse, but you know the stories of adults sending inappropriate pictures to what they assume is another adult. On an adult website, but turns out the recipient is a minor. Which isn't fair to the adult, because they were misled. But I'll stop there.

gain, the law would disagree on who has the responsibility, especially if something does occur. Adults should behave like adults, and that includes exercising caution when being involved with minors. Doing inappropriate things will be as much of the persons' fault as it is the parents' lack of caution. You are all equally responsible.

Again, a lot of adults don't behave like "adults". This line is very subjective of who you talk about and to. But yes, I do agree with, if you find the other is underage, no inappropriate situations should be occurring between the two parties. If it comes to the point where actual inappropriate pictures are being sent/swapped, messages? Yes, get the law and police involved. Each country has its' own different laws concerning these situations, so it will differ.

We can agree to disagree and that's fine if you don't like my viewpoints and opinions. I don't claim to be an expert or have correct factual information, so we can leave it at that, no?

[ReynTime]

Until SE starts taking botting, gil sellers, and content selling via RL money means seriously, this is the LEAST of their priorities. But O M G the children are more important than game-breaking bugs, glitches, and people using third-party programs to control markets boards and buying up housing plots.

I have a lot of complaints about XIV, but it's one of, if not the best when it comes to fixing bugs and glitches, so this statement is very exaggerated. The only point that isn't is the fact they do a poor job at dealing with bots and don't seem to bat an eye on RMT advertisements on PF.

[LianaThorne]

I fail to see how asking parents to keep their children in check as an excuse. Parents and their offspring are responsible for what they consume on the internet. Parents should be at least a bit aware of what their child is doing on the internet.

I agree with you that parents should be aware of everything their child is doing. For example, my parents were actually extremely strict with me growing up and did have parental controls on the majority of the things I accessed. HOWEVER, that did not happen UNTIL I started rebelling online and actually doing things that were incorrect (i.e. getting caught). I highly doubt that the majority of parents are just going to set their kids up with parental control right off the bat since most just throw their kids at a TV or computer as a means of distracting them these days. Like I said, since the pandemic happened, the parents that I have spoken to (as in parents from my generation, not my parents' generation) are sick of their kids from spending 24/7 with them all day and actively look for ways to get away from them. Policing their kids internet habits are the last thing on their mind.

I agree to a certain extent. However, how can one know one is a "child" when people can lie about their age? People assume you're over 18+ when entering the venues, so you have to give these roleplayers a bit of breathing room. Fake their entire life because of being anonymous on the internet? Yeah, it might sound like a lame excuse, but you know the stories of adults sending inappropriate pictures to what they assume is another adult. On an adult website, but turns out the recipient is a minor. Which isn't fair to the adult, because they were misled. But I'll stop there.

I actually have a really great solution for you: talk to them for longer than 5 minutes before you offer to take them to a private room. Talk to them about things that only adults would have legitimate knowledge on. Feel out their personality and their vibes. Watch how they act around other patrons. I get that you're in the camp of "adults not having responsibility because the minor lied" but you're still the adult in the situation. It does not matter if the child/teen lied about their age because they are still underage and the responsibility lies with the adult to do their due diligence before engaging with minors. You are the one with the fully developed brain, not them. "Assuming that someone is 18+" as you put it, is the issue and why adults get into these kinds of situations in the first place. You and I both know that a lot of the 18+ venue discords out there also have a space for sharing real life photos, so that's another way to verify who someone is. Reverse image searching also exists so you can check if the photo was taken from a website like Google. There are loads of things out there that people can use to protect themselves, it's just a matter of putting out the effort to do so.

[Nakarumi]

I currently have an ongoing and continuous investigation still delving into a demand for a clear answer from SE and/or their staffing/management. The below screenshots are my most recent communications with the in-game GMs responding to my support tickets:

Last message I sent to the GMs:




The following reply came a couple of days later:




This is an OBVIOUS dodge and refusal to answer a very simple and clear question. The questions not even open-ended to warrant a "please read the terms" response. This is unfair not to just the RP community but to anyone that simply wants to better understand what they did wrong, why it was wrong, and a clear explanation of how something violates policy. Players cannot correct actions that are not defined and laid out when any disciplinary action is handed out. There needs to be a revision to this practice and we will continue to fight this until someone is able to give us a clear and unmistaken answer. "Case-by-case" will not be a fair answer and is a poor excuse for what the community demands to know. If you can find something wrong with a statement or advert that is made, GMs need to have the ability to tell us WHY it was wrong. This blatant ignorance of "just cause we said so based on our interpretation of policy' is frankly BS and shows a poor taste in integrity and professionalism. WHY can't my questions be answered? They are simple and straightforward and need better definement. And for each situation to be considered individually... are you saying that there is no such thing as precedence??? I find this to be highly disturbing because that's a basic admission to saying that someone could receive a mark against their account for a "violation" and yet someone else who does the EXACT SAME THING may be let to pass without repercussion??? This is not a good practice in business.

FURTHER UPDATE:

I tried to provide a clear reference to the above mentioned "Please post suggestions to the forums" to help the team better track and document this ongoing issue but I have been apparently shut out and will thus open another ticket to prove that I plan to pursue this with the provided means that the GM team keeps suggesting.

[Darkmoonrise]

I understand the frustration going on but I think some people forgot one point here :

SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

This is in bold and underline in the first article of the TOS. And there is no ambiguity or grey area here. FFXIV is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship. What player think is fair, believe or feel is totally irrelevant. And everybody agreed with that.

And again, if SE needs to choose between a kid friendly image and a minority doing ERP, the choice is obvious. If they justify their action, they are doing a favour because they are not obligated to.

Oh and yes, children are more important than bugs and RMT. In which mindset is that not a thing?

[Kaurhz]

They will never answer aside from "We treat each case on an individual basis, and therefore cannot give a definitive answer." or that "Provided you adhere to the TOS then it is allowed"


Such things you won't get an answer for through GMs, really. Stuff like this will get better results through stuff such as Q&As, at least until they give a definitive answer which puts them in a position where they feel they need to revise their TOS. But then they won't do that until they find alternative avenues like parental control or reworking Fellowships as this will lead to too much of an outcry.

[Derio]

One of the biggest problems on Primal datacenter is the amount of people selling runs for real money. About half the parties posted are people selling runs. The fact that it hasnt been addressed and that they are more focused on RP community is crazy.