How does FF14 compare to WoW? (And other MMOs)

[Edax]

https://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Hazards

Yeah, none of the bosses I've fought do that. There are environmental stages in Fire Emblem Awakenings and Fates, but they aren't related to any boss fight and they are not the boss' power.

[ItMe]

the initial comment i replied to was that raiding does not seem like a good game concept and that it was not seen in single player games. nothing in that comment or my comment was about alienating a player base or a shift in design philosophy.

my point was that that design philosophy most definitely does exist in single player games.

Yes, raiding exists in single player games.
But I think you're reading their comment a little slant.

There are single player games with raiding, but there aren't really single player games all about raiding to the point where it is the games concept. Where it is dedicated to the idea of raiding to the exclusion of other things.
Raiding has its place in single player games (especially in end game content).
Raiding in single player games isn't inherently bad game design.
But are there single player games as raid focused as WoW is? The closest I can think are games that have single player... but still push a multiplayer experience (like Monster Hunter).
As Edax said:

Raiding doesn't seem like a good "game" concept. You don't see single player games dedicated to something so niche.

[Anhra]

As someone who played plenty of other MMORPGs (Rappelz Online during Epic 4, Perfect World, Tera Online, WoW for a short while during burning crusade, to name a few)before joining FFXIV, i can say my two cents on the matter of how things are in comparison for me.

FFXIV's combat is very bland and basic compared to other MMOs. Telegraph reliance aside, Jobs are way too similar from one another in their fulfilling role (Black Mage and Blue Mage being the only exceptions). Other MMOs usually design their Classes in a way that makes them completely unique from one another in terms of gameplay, learning curve (almost non-existent in FFXIV) and what role they play in pve and pvp.

As for the Community, i think it is overpraised for what it is. It is no big secret that any active MMO that has a active pvp community tends to have elitism oozing all over the place which is quite the normal thing, but in the matter of FFXIV, its more like toxic casualism, that denies anyone who doesnt agree with their utopian view of FFXIV from what i can tell.

As for the World itself, it is extremely forgiving, almost to silly levels sometimes. The amount of EXP gained (and how much it is possible to obtain) is extremely high for MMO standards and the Monsters/Enemies out on the field (aside from hunting marks above rank A) are so weak, that i am suprised that they arent collapsing ob their own after making a few steps, and Dungeons are just about the same. A MMORPG is normally suppoest to be a grindy and very time consuming activity.

I understand the "this is a final fantasy first, and a MMO second" policy from the developers, but i think it shouldnt be used as a excuse to neglect the latter just out of convenience, it still is a MMO whenever People like it or not.

[van_arn]

As someone who played plenty of other MMORPGs (Rappelz Online during Epic 4, Perfect World, Tera Online, WoW for a short while during burning crusade, to name a few)before joining FFXIV, i can say my two cents on the matter of how things are in comparison for me.

FFXIV's combat is very bland and basic compared to other MMOs. Telegraph reliance aside, Jobs are way too similar from one another in their fulfilling role (Black Mage and Blue Mage being the only exceptions). Other MMOs usually design their Classes in a way that makes them completely unique from one another in terms of gameplay, learning curve (almost non-existent in FFXIV) and what role they play in pve and pvp.

As for the Community, i think it is overpraised for what it is. It is no big secret that any active MMO that has a active pvp community tends to have elitism oozing all over the place which is quite the normal thing, but in the matter of FFXIV, its more like toxic casualism, that denies anyone who doesnt agree with their utopian view of FFXIV from what i can tell.

As for the World itself, it is extremely forgiving, almost to silly levels sometimes. The amount of EXP gained (and how much it is possible to obtain) is extremely high for MMO standards and the Monsters/Enemies out on the field (aside from hunting marks above rank A) are so weak, that i am suprised that they arent collapsing ob their own after making a few steps, and Dungeons are just about the same. A MMORPG is normally suppoest to be a grindy and very time consuming activity.

I understand the "this is a final fantasy first, and a MMO second" policy from the developers, but i think it shouldnt be used as a excuse to neglect the latter just out of convenience, it still is a MMO whenever People like it or not.

"It's a Final Fantasy First" is often used in such a way that people kind of gloss over and forget "It's also an MMO."

It's both, which means it can break two different ways. As time has gone on, it's started to collapse on the MMO side by pushing difficulty so low sections of the game could be replaced by a visual novel.

Praetorium is a good example. It's certainly Final Fantasy, but the combat in the present day doesn't really justify the massively multiplayer component. It could be a visual novel and nothing would be lost.

[Mavrias]

Yeah, none of the bosses I've fought do that. There are environmental stages in Fire Emblem Awakenings and Fates, but they aren't related to any boss fight and they are not the boss' power.

notice that I specified that they occur during boss fights, not that the boss itself was activating them.

and there were fire emblem games before those two [yells at clouds]

[ItMe]

As time has gone on, it's started to collapse on the MMO side by pushing difficulty so low sections of the game could be replaced by a visual novel.

Praetorium is a good example. It's certainly Final Fantasy, but the combat in the present day doesn't really justify the massively multiplayer component. It could be a visual novel and nothing would be lost.

Was Praetorium ever hard though?
I'm not sure that's a good example.

[Mavrias]

Yes, raiding exists in single player games.
But I think you're reading their comment a little slant.

There are single player games with raiding, but there aren't really single player games all about raiding to the point where it is the games concept. Where it is dedicated to the idea of raiding to the exclusion of other things.
Raiding has its place in single player games (especially in end game content).
Raiding in single player games isn't inherently bad game design.
But are there single player games as raid focused as WoW is? The closest I can think are games that have single player... but still push a multiplayer experience (like Monster Hunter).
As Edax said:

I think there's just a fundamental difference between our definitions of raiding as it pertains to single player games, which is fine. like I said, based on my definition of single player raiding plenty of games employ it.

personally as someone who played WoW in very brief spurts, I find WoW's endgame to be very raid focused but other aspects (story, questing, leveling, transmog, etc) exist without it and there are other sorts of endgame removed from it entirely (a la PVP and mythic+).

[ItMe]

I think there's just a fundamental difference between our definitions of raiding as it pertains to single player games, which is fine.

This... is probably very true lol
A lot of the friction in this side conversation really does seem to come from that.

[Ralph2449]

Coming from WoW and having played for a long time including their latest expansion FF14 has far too many advantages when compared to WoW

FF14
-A community that is miles better than the WoW community
-They treat casuals decently by giving us decent rewards for our time and decent gear progression without forcing high end content
-Crafting system is actually good and indepth
-Jobs and reputations are on one character so you never need to regrind everything if you change class
-This is important, immersion is simply far better, devs clearly spent time and money on small details like the wind affecting your hair/clothes, the facial animations through tiny changes conveying genuine emotions etc
-Better class design, WoW classes have been dumbed down a lot, though I am talking for dps, I never play tanks or healers
-housing
-Trials
-The devs care for the majority of the playerbase unlike the WoW devs who heavily focus on high end community at the expense of everyone else
-Better mogs, mogs are just better for me, I want to get so many while in WoW I just got a decent one and never bothered since most were meh
-It is not a casino or timegated grindfest*
-No need for addons, in WoW you ll need a ton of addons for literally everything
-Relics, a grind that is worth it for a strong/cool weapon
-Better story by miles, WoW story isnt that bad, but its positives are mostly in their cinematics and watching it as a movie with characters, not the ingame player driven story that is beyond silly.
-SE actually cares about stopping toxic attitude so they hire GMs and have great ways of punishing rule breakers so they dont do it again, WoW chats are a cesspool
-Raids dont have a hour of trash clearing(overall) that also respawn the moment you leave if you havent cleared certain bosses.

*Grinds are needed in an mmorpg, but WoW has focused so much on POINTLESS silly grinds and combined with the casino gear system it is designed to be an addiction machine with "maybe this week i ll get lucky and get a decent reward"

WoW
-More responsive and reaction based combat (Of course that means weak/boring animations in exchange)
-Australian servers
-Repeatable high end content with raids/m+/arenas
-Mog system is easier to use but the mogs arent interesting
-Some really good cinematics

Honestly the few positives they have also lead to a terrible community full of obnoxious elitists, metaslave tryhards whose ego depends on beating content ASAP with the most broken comb possible(Which kinda trivializes the challenge lol) for the prestige and self worth, the issue is because their ego depends on this they play the game like it is a job, not an actual VIDEO GAME, then you have the many addicts who might even hate WoW yet cant leave because of all the time invested and those manipulative time limited/exclusive rewards they have in their account.

[Puremallace]

If you like consistency then FF14 is the better MMO by a mile. If you like mood swing development then WoW is a good fit. From one patch to the next and expansion to the next in FF14 it is consistent in what to expect.

When it comes to WoW they throw out even the most basic stuff of how you get gear to try new systems that I have yet to see them get right.