How is the botting situation in this game?

[Nepentha]

But that problem is less about bots and more about accessibility. Whatever is very low cost but high reward is going to result in more people going that route. If you made bots disappear with the snap of a finger, you still likely wont be making tons of money because you have less buyers (yes bots buy mats from the MB because at times its more cost effective to do so) with more competition from the average player farming and selling easy-to-come-by materials.

Nah, not true. After one notorious botting ring suddenly fell off the radar for a week, prices returned to a healthy level. People were still buying the materials. Just the gil went to actual players rather than said botter.

This, btw doesnt even account for how market prices would fluctuate without bots. We are assuming that if an item sells for 100k with bots, that without bots it might sell higher. But that may not be necessarily the case. It could end up selling lower because there is less GIL in circulation so prices would be lower simply because people dont have money to afford said price points.

See this is a common misconception. People get all fussy that prices would get higher so no one could afford anything. Not really. With the markets returning to the players rather than the bots, people would be able to make more money and they'd have it to spend on items that have a higher cost.

[Melichoir]

Ah see, that is where the difference is. Your stance is 'MY markets aren't affected, so I don't consider this a problem'. Until it does affect your markets, we're probably not going to agree.

Unfortunately I lost my train of thought and accidently overwrote some of what I typed...so Ill just start here.

No the problem is your claim that you cant make money no matter what. That bots are so ubiquitous in all aspects of the game that you wont make a dime unless by sheer luck. This claim doesnt line up with what Im observing from my end. Are there botters on Aether DC? Yes. Are htey affecting prices? Yes. Would we be better off without them? Probably in the long haul. Is it impossible for people to generate money? No. My own experiences, tied with FC mates, as well as friends I have on other servers suggest this to be the case. Unless all of AETHER is just lucky, or I only run into the luckiest of people.

Does this mean everything I sell sells at the PP I want? No. I have to adjust pricing half the time. It may take days or even a week or two for a costlier item to sell. But they do sell.

Despite all this, and how aware of the 'rudimentary stuff' you are, youre suggesting that you still struggle to turn profit cause bots. That without those pesky bots, youd be raking in the dough with ease. I find that to be a strange idea frankly. I dont think its to difficult to generate Gil as it is. Im not suggesting it's easy or doesnt take time. But it's not like you have to be monitoring the MB 24/7, micromanaging every transaction, nickel and diming every aspect and coming up with algorithms and flow charts and guides on how to maximize profits. Getting a group of friends to run 10 or 12 maps weekly will likely generate for you half a mil to a mil. Getting for buds to run POTD or HOH for mounts will generate money. These things take time investments but are decent on the return. So if you cant make money in this environment, you expect to make it hand over fist when it would be in theory easier?

So Im really struggling to see your point of view that bots are ruining all your money making schemes. The most I can see from your point of view is how long prices stay high. I dont think they would realistically stay as high as you expect for as long as expected. especially since the price point of a lot of crafted gear at current content is closely tied to competitive relevance.

Nah, not true. After one notorious botting ring suddenly fell off the radar for a week, prices returned to a healthy level. People were still buying the materials. Just the gil went to actual players rather than said botter.

Using one week to justify "Well one bot ring went away so things went back to healthy normal pricing" is kinda iffy at best. Could very well be right, but youd need longer than a week to ensure the trend was stable and due specifically to said botter. Sure competition drops for a week so higher 'healthier' prices occur because demand hasnt changed but supply has. But this assumes that the demand will always remain. As players spend at higher prices, and gil leaves the economy slowing down inflation, prices may drop because people start losing the ability to purchase at that high price, essentially shrinking your buyer base.

See this is a common misconception. People get all fussy that prices would get higher so no one could afford anything. Not really. With the markets returning to the players rather than the bots, people would be able to make more money and they'd have it to spend on items that have a higher cost.

It's not a matter of price points going up IMO. It's more a point that the price point would remain the same while the willingness to buy it goes down as GIL leaves the economy. People tend to forget that Bots also generate GIL by selling to vendors. They dont MB every last thing they pick up. And conversely, they actually do buy from the MB (which ends up distributing some of that botted wealth to players inadvertently) because its more cost effective to have your bot farm higher rarer materials then spend the time farming vendor junk or low cost materials. Dont get me wrong, bots do farm low stuff, but it's not all they do. They play the market board as well. They just do it faster and more consistently. And if its an RMT bot, that GIL is going to end up in someone's pocket...to spend on the MB. All these things increase the amount of gil in the economy. Not for the best, per se, but it is occurring and having effects.

Removing bots assumes prices stay high cause "now regular players will be doing it, so there will be less supply". But that long term may not be the case as the currency inflation slows down. You may see prices stagnate or drop to role with the changes in the market conditions. Ironically, with more bots, prices tend to drop and people afford products at cheaper prices, making their spending power go further. In the conditions you layout where the bots dont exist, the power then shifts from bots to you, the crafter. Youre not actually enriching any other player, per se. Youre just eliminating your competition to get more of the market share. The only way people get those items is to invest in being crafters and gatherer's themselves. Which may end up being a turn off for some players and could adversly affect the game by slowing down sub rates. Not everyone likes crafting, and less gil in the economy or competition can make it hard for some players to stay invested and compete.

My curiosity lies with how much bots influence this aspect of the MB. How much are they causing inflation and price manipulation? How does their presence affect player retention? Can a modern MMO economy even function correctly without bots? But I digress.

My main contention is I think youre laying to much blame on bots. Im not sitting here to defend them. But rather if we ever want good solutions to a variety of issues in the game, like housing or what not, we need to be accurate with surveying the situation. Saying bots ruin everything and overblowing things isnt productive to solving some of the problems the player base has.

[Ashua]

Botting is the single biggest issue the player base has. Balmung enjoyed a period of a botting rarity when it was on lockdown and prices were much less controlled by automation. Yes, the housing incident was bad but even I and my nephew had our chance at camping a house and acquired a few to give to roleplayers over the years until the housing bots really started to become saturated. But all of these statements are meaningless. The point is botting is suppose to be against the terms of playing. Lots of people have gone unpunished and the ease for even non-rmt people to acquire a bot is flimsy easy. There should be no obscure middle argument. Either allow it or crackdown and deal with it aggressively by giving the players the tools to report these people and go after the most public and advertising bots that are spammed on every fan website. There are just a handful and what those bots can do is crazy. People use these bots to do ultimate modes as a team. No, the bot cannot do it all but it has scripts that know the pattern of every fight and optimizes rotation and potion use. The bots are very advanced because it's been ignored. It lets them control the Market place, housing, and high-end content by being able to teleport to safe spots in raids. There is no middle ground. Either let everyone have the same advantage the cheaters do or create tools to let us report these cheaters without taking 10 minutes to go through tedious interfaces that are purposely placed to discourage reports of illegal behavior. And even then they are ignored unless they rmt spam or teleport blatantly.

[Nepentha]

Just snipping all of this out because lol

To sum up: Ok, boomer.