Why is there so much animosity between raiders and RPers?

[SecretIsland]

Whew, my FF14 social media exploded today regarding the drama here: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...cement-by-GM-s

All over Reddit, Discord, Twitter and also the forums, everyone is talking about the roleplay ban in party finder. I'll admit that as a new player it has been pretty hard to keep up and I don't have all the facts, but I have a rough sense of what is going on now!

One thing I don't understand though is the animosity between raiders and RPers apparently. I'm not taking sides here - I haven't quite figured out what to do after just finishing the Shadownbringers expansion recently! But I did notice a lot of bickering between two groups of people, which I think can be broadly classified as the "raiders" and the "RPers". In one of the subreddits I frequent, the thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...rs_posting_rp/) on this topic has a highly upvoted comment that says:

"While I think the GM here is wrong, it's been funny watching the same people on twitter who were laughing about ultimate getting cancelled turn around and cry their eyes out about how unfair this is."

One of the replies says:

"I think the main difference is that the RPers aren't whining about how Covid 19 and Japan's government lockdowns are "just an excuse" or claiming real life limitations should not have any bearing on actual game development."

I'm not really sure what this meant but it sounded like the raiders whined about lockdown at some point in the game's history, and the RPers are accusing the raiders for not obeying social distancing policies?

In the forum's thread on the same issue, I've noticed people also celebrating the ban (yes, I read through all 70 pages :P)

I've found this very helpful comment which I though elucidated the rivalry:

"Idk there's always been a weird rivalry between the two subsets of players, there's some crossover for sure, but I know a few people that were ceremoniously disowned by their RPer friends for getting into raiding. (I've seen people get disowned for RPing, too, so it kinda goes both ways). A bunch of people on twitter see the game as having a kind of binary between content-oriented and social-oriented players, even though it's pretty untrue. There's even been a bunch of finger-pointing going around, with people unfoundedly accusing the raid community of reporting their PFs xD.

I do think it's dumb and I'm fully supportive of an RP section in the PF, I just got a little schadenfreude out of seeing a few familiar faces on twitter have a meltdown is all."

(https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...eb2x&context=3)

As someone who is very new to the world of MMOs, I'm very lost but I think I'm also beginning to understand the rivalry between RPers and raiders. It seems that raiders are angry that RPers are ERPing in the game, while RPers do not want to see more Ultimates (which I'm guessing is like a harder Extreme?). Hence they despise each other because their interests are at odds and the developers cannot simultaneously please both camps.

I would love to hear your thoughts on what causes this rivalry!

Edit1:

I'm over here in the fashion community just shrugging at the whole mess (we raid! we RP! we do all the things! we don't judge!)

But the real reason is this: The iron triangle, or the scarcity of resources from the development team. (The iron triangle in project management is time, money, scope.)

Raiders believe that SE should hire additional battle content programmers and focus their efforts on high difficulty, high reward content like the Ultimates, or hiring network engineers to fix the netcode to get ride of the deadly snapshots and server ticks that are the bane of their existence.

The RPers believe SE should instead hire additional infrastructure programmers, and work on stuff like making additional housing districts, optimizing the netcode to allow for more inventory, making a better glam system, male viera, hats, etc.

Every time new content is made for one group, they believe that those resources (money, time, energy, developers) is being taken away from the other group. And that is, in fact, true to some extent. Battle Director Gondai said during one of his Fanfest interviews that they made a decision to stick with a smaller number of high quality in house programmers, instead of farming out projects to subcontractors. The same is probably true for the zone design, the item design, etc. So resources for zones and characters and monsters cannot simultaneously be used for other characters and zones.

This makes a lot of sense. I wish I can upvote you more!

Hmm. I see a ton of RPers with Ultimate titles, E12s raid clears full BiS. I raid and RP as well. I find it odd at least here on Primal RP/Raiders fight, (maybe in /random in RP..)

Thank you for sharing. It does seem that there is an overlap but it also seems that of the people who only do one type of activity they are very angry at the other side!

Edit2:

I've never seen any negativity towards RP'ers. What I have seen negativity to is ERPers. That needs banning and swiftly. The entire argument is the only RP you ever seen is stupid ERP crud. That isn't roleplaying. That doesn't have a place here in this game. That needs to be banned. Regular RP is fine and isn't being touched. It's the ERP crowd that has infested the game and housing districts alike. They've become unavoidable really. They're truly a boil on the RP community. I welcome their banning. Long overdue.

Thank you for sharing! Can I ask what do the ERPers do that needs banning (is it because of the 18+ content?)

[MPK]

RPers bad they're the reason why we lost an ultimate this expansion

[WoW]

It's the casual RPer that we have an issue with. A hardcore and respected raider who RPs knows when and how without violating the game's TOS.

[Doozer]

People always need someone to fight.

[SecretIsland]

RPers bad they're they reason why we lost an ultimate this expansion

Is there a reason why? You were one of the people who celebrated the RP ban on PF. No judgment here, I would just like to hear everyone's thoughts.

Edit: Just realized you explained the reason right after I clicked on "Reply" haha! I thought the Ultimate was lost because of COVID? Why is this the RPers' fault?

[Disappoint]

Is there a reason why? You were one of the people who celebrated the RP ban on PF. No judgment here, I would just like to hear everyone's thoughts.

Edit: Just realized you explained the reason right after I clicked on "Reply" haha! I thought the Ultimate was lost because of COVID?

It was me, I personally sabotaged it by distracting the devs with particularly long paragraphs.

[SecretIsland]

It's the casual RPer that we have an issue with. A hardcore and respected raider who RPs knows when and how without violating the game's TOS.

I'm sorry if I'm not following. Why are casual RPers violating the game's TOS?

[Krotoan]

The communities resent content made for the other because they feel they're being denied THEIR content in exchange.

[Catwho]

I'm over here in the fashion community just shrugging at the whole mess (we raid! we RP! we do all the things! we don't judge!)

But the real reason is this: The iron triangle, or the scarcity of resources from the development team. (The iron triangle in project management is time, money, scope.)

Raiders believe that SE should hire additional battle content programmers and focus their efforts on high difficulty, high reward content like the Ultimates, or hiring network engineers to fix the netcode to get ride of the deadly snapshots and server ticks that are the bane of their existence.

The RPers believe SE should instead hire additional infrastructure programmers, and work on stuff like making additional housing districts, optimizing the netcode to allow for more inventory, making a better glam system, male viera, hats, etc.

Every time new content is made for one group, they believe that those resources (money, time, energy, developers) is being taken away from the other group. And that is, in fact, true to some extent. Battle Director Gondai said during one of his Fanfest interviews that they made a decision to stick with a smaller number of high quality in house programmers, instead of farming out projects to subcontractors. The same is probably true for the zone design, the item design, etc. So resources for zones and characters and monsters cannot simultaneously be used for other characters and zones.

[Merrnryn]

Hmm. I see a ton of RPers with Ultimate titles, E12s raid clears full BiS. I raid and RP as well. I find it odd at least here on Primal RP/Raiders fight, (maybe in /random in RP..)