Thread: Paladin button consolidation for 6.0

Originally Posted by Jandor

Holy Spircle: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 350 to target, and 250 to all surrounding enemies.

Ez pz.

Not really that easy. That works for dps prefered target AoEs, but not for tank preferred self originating AoEs. I've lost count of the number of times only a portion of a trash pack is hit by Confietor due to my current target being in a bad position while Holy Circle could have hit them all.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Not really that easy. That works for dps prefered target AoEs, but not for tank preferred self originating AoEs. I've lost count of the number of times only a portion of a trash pack is hit by Confietor due to my current target being in a bad position while Holy Circle could have hit them all.

Automatically centres on self with no target, with 350 potency affecting the closest enemy. Confiteor can be the same.

There ya go, consolidated a button and made another one better. I'm on a roll.

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

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Originally Posted by AvernusTyrfing

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I see...
Hmm... these are things I hadn't considered.
While I'm not really concerned with how something like this might not play nicely with macros, I think you two have changed my mind on keeping Shelltron and Intervention separate.

Originally Posted by Jandor

Automatically centres on self with no target, with 350 potency affecting the closest enemy. Confiteor can be the same.

There ya go, consolidated a button and made another one better. I'm on a roll.

No, you are not. You fail to realize that the game auto-targets when you are hit when not targeted or hit with an ability. People would just end up creating /ac <Spell Name> <me> macros for when they need to hit a large number of targets around them such as in trash pulls. Leaving Holy Circle and Holy Spirit separated is fine.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

No, you are not. You fail to realize that the game auto-targets when you are hit when not targeted or hit with an ability. People would just end up creating /ac <Spell Name> <me> macros for when they need to hit a large number of targets around them such as in trash pulls. Leaving Holy Circle and Holy Spirit separated is fine.

I second this, merging Holy Spirit and Holy Circle is actually an atrocious downgrade for both skills, and making a targeting nightmare in an already crappy targeting system is down right awful in consideration.

Plus to sound like every other tank, when stuff was removed or consolidated, I don't wanna lose one of my animations, I happen to like both animations for Holy Spirit and Holy Circle.

I think people are taking it one step further than I intended. I don't want to remove skills. Just the necessity of having those skill hotkeyed. Turning Royal Authority into Atonement doesn't get rid of either skill, it just replaces Royal Authority when Sword Oath is up, reducing the need to having Atonement take its own keybind.

Same with Requiescat and Confiteor.

delete PLD

Originally Posted by Elizasylen

I think people are taking it one step further than I intended. I don't want to remove skills. Just the necessity of having those skill hotkeyed. Turning Royal Authority into Atonement doesn't get rid of either skill, it just replaces Royal Authority when Sword Oath is up, reducing the need to having Atonement take its own keybind.

I believe we are at the point we should combine combo skills into single button(s), just like those in PvP. To those who believe that in doing so, the difficulty would drop, I have to disagree. Lowering the button count doesn't necessarily result in an easier game, as you still need the knowledge WHEN to use certain buttons or skills. I admit that it would up the lowest of lowest that would press combo skills without their combo, on purpose or not, and it makes it easier to reach your common combo buttons. But nothing will beat knowledge and the ability to use it. Imho, it shouldn't be possible to use un-combo-ed skills anyway.

Let's take PLD combo for example. You'ld have 2 buttons: (1) is "Goring Blade-combo", and (2) is "Royal Authority-combo -> Atonement". A newbie would most likely only press either (1) or (2), but a veteran would use both and know when to, too. You can do the same stuff with 2 buttons, you could do with 5 buttons before.

And it will be necessary if we want to keep our current actions as well. We (and SE) need to prevent button bloat, you can only reach so many hotkeys. If this doesn't happen - one way or another, we WILL lose some action to make place for new ones. And I for once, don't want to lose another useful action that gets reintroduced as a new one later on; and other (early accessable) benefits getting stripped from us, just to get reintroduced as a trait (yes, I am looking at you, Enhanced Thrill of Battle trait!). I would rather get new ones that interact with the current kit instead of scraping and downgrading stuff.

Other simple examples (outside of combos):
NIN-Dream within a Dream->Assassinate; BLM-Enochian->Blizzard IV/Fire IV and Leylines->Between the Lines; SMN-Enkindle Egi->Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix and/or ED->Fester+ES->Pain Flare; DRG-(High) Jump->Mirage Dive; BRD-Wanderer's Minuet->Pitch Perfect and probably many more (that I can't think of rn because I am tired)

Cheers

The reason I'm not particularly fond of paladin at the moment, even though it is definitely improved over prior versions, is that the idea of a tank is to mitigate damage to the group by taking the hits from the boss monster and weave defense cooldowns / support heals to assure that you keep standing. Paladin having three off global instant attacks to manage is a bit much and I think that they should have pruned some things that they didn't go through with.

If we really want to get down to it:

1) Spirits within is completely worthless. The purpose of it is to regain MP, but Atonement already does it and is part of the primary rotation along with riot blade, and the damage is inconsistent on it due to the tanks HP pool constantly being in flux. So there's no reason to even keep it at this point.
2) Atonement is basically combo motion 4-6 on the Royal Authority tree. It makes it more forgiving to have it off the combo chain, but at the same time eats up a button that really could be used for something else. I'm 50/50 on it.
3) Confiteor only has meaning when Requiscat is active, so why the heck does it have it's own button? It's like a button for buttons sake, you can still miss it one way or another, and it gets in the way of other useful cooldowns on the bar.
4) The only cooldown that I've ever used on tank that involves the funky shield tree is Sheltron. I've never once used either of the team oriented cooldowns because it requires too much effort to get a minimal benefit off. It's the same with the warrior skills and it's why I think that Cover and Intervention are kind of worthless. Just too much going on in serious end-game content to make those viable when you got an enrage timer to beat.
5) Paladin by far has the worst self healing skill of the bunch with clemency. I know they wanted to sort of mimic a cure type spell on paladin, but with it having a cast time and such a low payoff when not on requiscat combo, it really isn't worth the effort to use. I feel like it is there for cheesing old style content and that is about it.
6) Divine Veil and Passage of Arms are probably okay. I think Divine Veil can be a little tricky to proc sometimes when you want it, since it relies on others to heal you during a critical moment just to get the shield, so Divine Veil is sort of up there with Spirits Within on being an unpredictable bucking bronco.