Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

[Infindox]

Let me preface this by saying I don't roleplay or look for clears.

I'm a pretty negative Nancy when it comes to this kinda stuff but I think both Roleplay adverts and Clear selling should be taken out of Party Finder and have it be used for just...party finding. Free Companies exist, Fellowships exist, Linkshells exist, the Yell and Shout Chat functions exists, Recruitment finder on lodestone is a thing, advertising outside the game itself on related websites/forums is allowed and even encouraged. I feel like even with this change the roleplay community would be largely unaffected, reason being that people who're interested will end up finding their way regardless using any of the aforementioned functions. Plus as an FC leader I speak from experience when I say PF is a crummy way to advertise anyway. When I used to advert my FC in PF years ago I'd get maybe like 1 tell every couple of weeks? There are better ways, Innovate, Adapt, Overcome.

Tl;dr I'd be completely fine with less irrelevant things to me in the PF either way.

You are allowed your own opinion but PF is probably one of the only ways I find groups for content. Most people ignore Shout. Linkshells don't get advertised unless asked. Not everyone wants in a big FC. Fellowships... Suck, to put it mildly. Discord is fine but, again, that's usually advertised on PF. I wouldn't mind if they said "no more.of this on PF" and then gave us an alternative.

[Airyll]

It doesn't matter whether or not it's in a public space or not. You cannot send sexually explicit content to minors in many countries, and it's a global game. ERP shouldn't be taking place because there's no way of telling just how old the other person is, or what their countries' laws of consent are. Anybody who ERPs could potentially become a sex offender, whether they mean to or not.

By your logic, nothing even remotely inappropriate should be anywhere on the internet, at all, given the global nature of it. Because technically a tech-savvy minor could get onto any website and view any content, be that a blog or a game or a wikipedia article or a fanfiction site or a fanart site or a video site or a chatroom and I could go on and on and on and on and on because the list is exhaustive. So I assume you write to sites like AO3 constantly and ask them to take down any and all content they host that happens to be rated mature, correct? Because after all, What About The Children. I'm sure you also constantly plead with Discord to strike any user who sends mature messages in DMs to people because there's no guarantee that person didn't lie about their age too, right?

Be honest: you don't. You are making a special and magical exception for FFXIV that you don't make for other sites; you don't go around to other places and tell people not to send private messages to anybody if they contain inappropriate content because maybe that person isn't of age. There comes a certain point where a human being has done all they can to reasonably verify who they are talking to (and most people who actually ERP talk with any potential roleplay partners beforehand to assess everything from the age of their partner to what they are or aren't comfortable with to anything in between, because despite the impressions most people have, actual roleplayers overall take this issue very seriously) and there is nothing more that they can reasonably do.

If you believe that isn't good enough, then I would expect you to hold the same candle to everywhere online that you're trying to hold to XIV right now. Which doesn't even address the fact that this entire topic, spurred on by bad-faith actors trying to imply that roleplayers are degenerates who secretly predate on specific individuals and don't remotely try to police their own communities, is not even remotely related to the actual problem of a GM blanket-smashing roleplay adverts regardless of their content.

/edit : I also don't want to hear "By advertising an 18+ venue in PF you're FORCING a poor child to look at it" because most of those venues (with only maybe one exception I've ever seen) simply state "18+". By this logic I'm sure you also all deeply panic when some 15 year old in a store notices a movie or a game with the 18 label on it, right? Oh me oh my, the forced exposure to the number "18+" and the inference that mature things might happen. Won't anybody think of the children.

[MeiraStarborne]

i was mostly replying to the idea that if you go to the right places on mateus or balmung you'll see people just being nasty in public. s'not the case.

That's fair.

i'm not opposed to being like 'hey dont openly advertise you're an 18+ venue or brothel' but at the same time, i see why rpers would like to know that upfront without having to go to a venue's carrd or the venue itself to find that out. if i'm not wanting to be in that scene i'd rather not go to a venue's carrd (i keep referencing these and idek if people elsewhere use those as much as crystal does but i know some primal rp venues have carrds) and be like "ah dang" so if they drop a little (18+) in the PF, it helps me know, eh, not the spot for me at the moment.

also both sfw and nsfw ones were getting the axe so eeeeeeh kind of a moot point, if it was only 18+/ERP venues that got a smack on the hand i don't think people would be as up in arms.

And, as I said, I do agree with you. Personally, I miss the days where the NSFW stuff was much more unspoken. I enjoyed several venues for a long time before I even KNEW they offered ERP services. They were just fun venues with friendly staff and chatty bartenders. Over time, the sale of ERP became offered more readily and more openly, and not after having a lengthy conversation with a staff member. And now, you can't look at the "Other" tab without seeing all the venues who openly brag about their courtesans.

[Ovted]

Some one or some group of people are taking it upon themselves most likely to get something started in "cleaning up" PF listings.

The GM isn't technically wrong. PF is there for creating parties. Not for advertising.

The correct method as was mentioned I believe is moving those things to the Fellowship function. The RP crowd should take it upon themselves to collectively move their stuff over there so PF can stay what it was meant to be.

Parties are created with the content being RP which may vary in the goal some to create friends some to relax. much like some goals of dungeons is to progress story or acquire loot or achievements. It is used to clear content but until we are allowed to have 200+ person parties then we can't do it the way they want. and if the alternative to other party finder is spamming chat to join the fellowship or spamming chat to go to the venue. The other party finder is done with the player base in mind. Again this includes party finders for a RPing stories such as one I saw for academy school RP. There is no where other than party finder to post information for players to look up for social events the only alternative is spam which is detrimental to the community. One solution that could be made is create an RP party finder tab.

[Sayori]

I don't RP, nor do I care about RP, but this whole situation is way beyond the line. There's content sections for about any type of content in PF, let people use the "other" section in whatever way they want tbh. The people looking specifically for raids or ex trials won't even bother to skim different sections in PF. Absolutely ridiculous.

[DeltaD36]

Get out of PF and use the damn Fellowship finder.

[NessaWyvern]

You are making a special and magical exception for FFXIV that you don't make for other sites; you don't go around to other places and tell people not to send private messages to anybody if they contain inappropriate content because maybe that person isn't of age. There comes a certain point where a human being has done all they can to reasonably verify who they are talking to (and most people who actually ERP talk with any potential roleplay partners beforehand to assess everything from the age of their partner to what they are or aren't comfortable with to anything in between, because despite the impressions most people have, actual roleplayers overall take this issue very seriously) and there is nothing more that they can reasonably do.

If you believe that isn't good enough, then I would expect you to hold the same candle to everywhere online that you're trying to hold to XIV right now. Which doesn't even address the fact that this entire topic, spurred on by bad-faith actors trying to imply that roleplayers are degenerates who secretly predate on specific individuals and don't remotely try to police their own communities, is not even remotely related to the actual problem of a GM blanket-smashing roleplay adverts regardless of their content.

/edit : I also don't want to hear "By advertising an 18+ venue in PF you're FORCING a poor child to look at it" because most of those venues (with only maybe one exception I've ever seen) simply state "18+". By this logic I'm sure you also all deeply panic when some 15 year old in a store notices a movie or a game with the 18 label on it, right? Oh me oh my, the forced exposure to the number "18+" and the inference that mature things might happen. Won't anybody think of the children.

You don't think I make these comments elsewhere?
I'm not making a special or magical exception for FFXIV. When companies don't want to face lawsuits for sexually explicit material sent to minors by other users, they are free to punish their players and put restrictions as they see fit. Facebook gets backlash because they don't to it enough, but they still do it. Same with Youtube. Squeenix is no exception. Even some discord chats get shut down when explicit material is found on them, like what happens with the wallstreetbets discord, since there were too many people for the moderators to moderate that stuff off of there.

I honestly think that Youtube, Discord, WoW, Facebook, etc should not have sexual material on them, as they are accessed by children. In the FF14 Rules and Policies page, those under the age of 13 are not allowed to play, but that means that 13+ people *can* play, which means sexually explicit material should not be in this game. Especially if it's from other players.

And you can't just "talk to someone to access their age". Some people may write beyond their years, use voice changers, some may be minors that already know about things that are talked about in ERP, due to grooming from adults, or previous ERP sessions and webstites they should not have been in. To ask for info that gives a more accurate assessment of age, such as pictures and identification can be problematic as well (not to mention, they can be edited), as it can result in a person being doxed.

[Kaurhz]

/edit : I also don't want to hear "By advertising an 18+ venue in PF you're FORCING a poor child to look at it" because most of those venues (with only maybe one exception I've ever seen) simply state "18+". By this logic I'm sure you also all deeply panic when some 15 year old in a store notices a movie or a game with the 18 label on it, right? Oh me oh my, the forced exposure to the number "18+" and the inference that mature things might happen. Won't anybody think of the children.

I'm impressed by the ability to actually carry out this much mental gymnastics. Not even remotely the same thing, or equivalent, and if anything it is about "protecting" both individuals rather than just the child. Especially considering the case both parties would be held accountable, especially the adult in an 'NSFW' situation.

[Sevrin_Blaine]

Get out of PF and use the damn Fellowship finder.

But what about the fisher who was putting up a legitimate party finder for game content fishing?

[Glaschuu]

We got into this situation because of spam. Specifically, we got into this situation because nightclubs were getting catty with each other, putting up 3+ PFs to bump down rival venues. Uninvolved players were annoyed enough to start reporting these PFs, and the rest is history. Most solutions offered so far don't address that a change in mindset needs to happen from the community itself: stop spamming. It's well-known that the best advertisement method is word of mouth, that players blacklist venues and individuals spamming ads in Shout channels or PF. So why do it? It's counterintuitive to the goal of increased attendance.

Do RMT/clear sellers need to be dealt with as well? Absolutely. But I'm increasingly convinced adding a Roleplay tab in PF will just kick the can further down the road. Be courteous, be mindful of your fellow players, and curb your enthusiasm: don't Shout ads more than every half hour per zone, don't have more than two PFs up for your venue. And remember that minors, whether we like it or not, play this game, so language should be kept PG-13.