Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

[Kaurhz]

If PF is intended for the formation of parties to attempt content, then that must mean all those PF advertising sales for runs/clears are fine unless it can be proven that RMT or other TOS violations are involved.

With that said, false advertisement should be taken into consideration. Using level 50/60/70 roulette PF to advertise for an Ultimate is bad regardless if everything else about it is truly legit.

Selling and advertising to run content at that moment are 2 different things, irrespective of whether RMT can or cannot be proven. Party Finder should be done with the intent of grouping up and clearing content at that moment or at a given time (static replacements, albeit temp), not for selling the content.

[linayar]

Party Finder should be done with the intent of grouping up and clearing content at that moment or at a given time (static replacements, albeit temp), not for selling the content.

While I can agree with that, in general, I also do think that selling clear/loot runs for in-game currency is really no different than selling gears/food/potions/leveling kits/etc.

If the game allows for player trading/economy, then any in-game business is legitimate unless the product/service being sold is a violation, and helping someone clear content/get loot is the opposite of a violation in an MMO. An in-game business transaction in such a case would just be part of the social aspect of the game.

[Kaurhz]

While I can agree with that, in general, I also do think that selling clear/loot runs for in-game currency is really no different than selling gears/food/potions/leveling kits/etc.

If the game allows for player trading/economy, then any in-game business is legitimate unless the product/service being sold is a violation, and helping someone clear content/get loot is the opposite of a violation in an MMO. An in-game business transaction in such a case would just be part of the social aspect of the game.

There's a clear difference between selling content, and selling consumables, gear, etc, etc. Is that selling content not only undermines those that have cleared it and their sense of achievement, but also those that bought the content then have a serious false sense of achievement. Granted this is largely on a matter of principle than anything else. But I would stand to argue if any 'investigation' were carried out you could at some point find out that 90% of them are in violation of ToS.

Whilst I am inclined to agree on this point, I will mention that going by this selfsame reasoning, then purchasing and selling housing was always completely legitimate and therefore any reworks were not even necessary because it is just an in-game transaction that encompasses the social aspect of the game.

Either way, not even that relevant to the thread so I will halt this topic here and outline a point on topic; there's a reason why fellowship finder exists. Granted, it could use some expanding upon. But the point that there are people advertising for stuff that would be considered NSFW. Not something people take pleasure in when all they want to do is search for a party to clear content.

[linayar]

There's a clear difference between selling content, and selling consumables, gear, etc, etc. Is that selling content not only undermines those that have cleared it and their sense of achievement, but also those that bought the content then have a serious false sense of achievement.

That's like saying it's ok to help out someone by crafting and giving them gears for free, but it's not ok to sell those gears to them. If it's ok to help people run content for free, it's also ok to help them run content for a fee. Or are you saying it's not ok to help someone clear content at all?

Whilst I am inclined to agree on this point, I will mention that going by this selfsame reasoning, then purchasing and selling housing was always completely legitimate and therefore any reworks were not even necessary.

I would agree to that as well. With that said, housing is its own issue due to real scarcity that is caused by the devs' mismanagement. Sometimes, certain special rules are needed to address special issues.

At any case, that is beyond the topic of PF and what it is intended for and the implication that I was pointing out from the GM's wording.

[Kaurhz]

That's like saying it's ok to help out someone by crafting and giving them gears for free, but it's not ok to sell those gears to them. If it's ok to help people run content for free, it's also ok to help them run content for a fee. Or are you saying it's not ok to help someone clear content at all?

I would agree to that as well. With that said, housing is its own issue due to real scarcity that is caused by the devs' mismanagement. Sometimes, certain special rules are needed to address special issues.

At any case, that is beyond the topic of PF and what it is intended for and the implication that I was pointing out from the GM's wording.

I'm not entirely sure where this first sentence came from, didn't even imply that, so don't try and misrepresent the argument. Helping someone clear content, and piloting them through content, or putting them in a position where they are not required to learn/execute any mechanics or put any effort in at all are 2 entirely different things. I'm saying it's not ok to sell content.

[Sophia-Mooncat]

I am very upset about this action that Square Enix has taken against many players in the roleplaying community. I want to say first of all that the players were not jailed and warned (and at least in one case suspended) because they were engaging in erotic roleplaying or subjecting minors to adult themes or content. The GM stated in these confrontations that the players were receiving disciplinary action for misusing the party finder: they weren't using it to run "content."

This makes absolutely no sense and is contradictory. What constitutes "content?" Is it just the things listed in the other tabs of the Party Finder? In that case, why have an "Other" section? Will I get jailed if I put up a recruitment message asking players to gather to gpose with me? Will I get jailed if I make a recruitment message to invite people to come enjoy a performance concert? Will I get jailed if I put up a recruitment message asking people to come check out my house that I just decorated? What if my FC wants to have a seasonal event for Halloween or Valentine's? Am I not allowed to post a message inviting the community to come partake?

A large part of the game is based around furnishing and housing. Even the high-end raids give rewards that allow us to craft special furnishing items to put in our houses. We were recently given the ability to tag our houses as venues, and we even got exterior housing designs that allow us to make our houses look like shops and other types of themed locations. How is that not "content?"

What irks me the most is that the people getting jailed are people who put a ton of their own personal time and care into creating roleplaying "content" that could never be otherwise available. It takes so much coordination to put together a staff and set up an immersive experience for people to enjoy in what is clearly advertised as a "roleplaying game."

Just look at the main FFXIV page that is designed to sell the game to new players:







A big draw is that people can create a virtual character and roleplay as that character. A large portion of the game--from glamour to housing to emotes--is geared towards facilitating that.

I sincerely hope that Square Enix makes an apology to the roleplaying community and takes some steps to clarify what is and is not breaking the terms of service so that we can play the game without worrying about whether we will be jailed, suspended, or permanently banned. There shouldn't be room to interpret these things loosely, especially when the people who are being targeted clearly put a lot of love and care into this game.

[linayar]

I'm not entirely sure where this first sentence came from, didn't even imply that, so don't try and misrepresent the argument.

That first sentence comes from the implication of what you are saying.

Let's clarify it:

Helping someone clear content, and piloting them through content, or putting them in a position where they are not required to learn/execute any mechanics or put any effort in at all are 2 entirely different things. I'm saying it's not ok to sell content.

So is it ok if they do the same thing but for free?

Do you think SE will do anything if 7 people are willing to let 1 person jump off the edge the moment they can and clear the content like that for them?

And let's not forget that we're talking about PF advertisement here. So they can make it vague enough that you can't say just from the ad what exactly they are doing.

Also the content being sold through PF is 1) RMT 2) giving the seller access to the buyer's account which are both against the ToS.

If you read my first post, I think you would know that I'm not talking about that.

[Kaurhz]

That first sentence comes from the implication of what you are saying.

Let's clarify it:

So is it ok if they do the same thing but for free?

Do you think SE will do anything if 7 people is willing to let 1 person jump off the edge the moment they can and clear the content like that for them?

And let's not forget that we're talking about PF advertisement here. So they can make it vague enough that you can't say just from the ad what exactly they are doing.

Jesus Christ, we're here again.

Doing something for free and being charitable about it still devalues the content for a vast majority of people, especially if it essentially results in the person being to 'declare' non-participation whilst still getting rewards. Not against the ToS however. But the topic here is not about people doing things for free, it is about people Selling. Again, don't misrepresent the argument. Giving something away, and selling it are 2 entirely different things, especially with anyone giving it any modicum of thought should be able to deduce the latter is likely to include RMT, and the former more than likely account sharing. Not even sure why you're defending it tbh

[ZedxKayn]

That's like saying it's ok to help out someone by crafting and giving them gears for free, but it's not ok to sell those gears to them. If it's ok to help people run content for free, it's also ok to help them run content for a fee. Or are you saying it's not ok to help someone clear content at all?

Selling gear and consumables through PF is merely skipping the MB tax. Selling content is skipping hours and hours of prog and genuine effort from the player.

Also the content being sold through PF is 1) RMT 2) giving the seller access to the buyer's account which are both against the ToS.

And also it's seriously hypocritical of the devs to not allow BLU in Ultimate using the "ultimate raiders' feelings" as an excuse but letting run sellers advertise on PF.