Fandaniel and the Depths of Ascian Tempering

[RobinMalvin]

Oracle of Darkness
In Lord Zodiark's name!

Out of topic, where'd you get this quote? I've spent months fighting her and not once I heard her using that line, even checked some youtube videos to make sure.

...This line is from savage mode right?

[Naoki34]

He's a cheap joker, plus he's got the head of Stormblood's worst character.

[Anonymoose]

Is it their true memories restored? Or is it memories of unsundered injected into them? And why is their true self a tempered one and not the one before tempering?

All we had to go by was 5.3 and the short story, implying they were second-hand memories alone, until Eden said,

Loghrif
In my defense, my memories have only recently been restored. My mind is still a little hazy.
Mitron
Hardly surprising. No matter how many times we are reborn, it is disorienting to have everything change around you.

How to interpret this alongside Fandaniel having "no firsthand memories" of the Final Days (but still having inherited the Ascian power of the Fandaniel) I'm not entirely sure. Either the stones awaken enough memories to restore that "version" of you without the complete library of lived experiences or Gaia is speaking a little too broadly. It could be either, I think. If you removed half of my important lived experiences, I wouldn't be the same person, either. And if I was then treated as disposable/incomplete I'd probably be pretty spiteful myself, lol.

It's also possible the Echo is involved somehow.

Aren't Asicans "dead" by virtue of their very nature?

Perhaps it is a question of physical death versus spiritual death, and that we only see tempering fade before a true spiritual dissolution. And now that you mention it, I wonder if there's anyone who is simultaneously in the "The sundered aren't tempered." and "Hydaelyn tempers you." buckets... If Zenos is after Zodiark, pretty sure my dude still has the Echo, right?

Out of topic, where'd you get this quote? I've spent months fighting her and not once I heard her using that line, even checked some youtube videos to make sure.

...This line is from savage mode right?

To be honest I'm not sure, it was from a list of her battle quotes. It was sandwiched between "I shall fulfill my duty as the Oracle of Darkness!" and "Memories...fading one by one..." so it was attributed to her with the rest of the block. It is possible it didn't end up being used or was thrown in late from somewhere else. Adjoining "In Lord Zodiark's Name" above and below should be, "Return to oblivion!" and "Shadows fall!"

Think this one was mis-attributed?

[RobinMalvin]

Think this one was mis-attributed?

Considering all her lines are voiced in the fight, I'll say this is definitely one such the case. She is basically Ultimecia's homage so having her invoking Zodiark would make it out of place. The closest she's got to mentioning Zodiark is the line "By the will of the ancients".

There is the off chance other languages might use different line but I can't be sure of that.

[Veloran]

How to interpret this alongside Fandaniel having "no firsthand memories" of the Final Days (but still having inherited the Ascian power of the Fandaniel) I'm not entirely sure.

Maybe Fandaniel was already dead before the climax of the Final Days in Amaurot, so he never experienced it. Alternatively he may not consider that version of himself the current "him". His stone may also be flawed in some way, as it was the only one of all the crystals to contain an incomplete, fragmented memory. It's possible the Unsundered simply didn't have enough memories of Fandaniel to trigger his own memories to return, so he's been stuck with broken half-memories and just serving as an Ascian without a strong reason to do so.

[Anonymoose]

There is the off chance other languages might use different line but I can't be sure of that.

Did some more research at your urging. Usually they all have equivalents of each other by language so "By the will of the Ancients" (even if it didn't say that in JP) would have something else in the same call slot, so "In Lord Zodiark's name!" would have its own. The other language equivalents would have been...

Im Namen von Zodiark!
Au nom du grand Zordiarche!
戒律王の名において……！
In the name of the King of Precepts!

Going through fight footage instead of lore quote lists, I can see... (so far)

Confirmed

• Mitron!? ...Aaaaaah!
• Yes... I remember. I am Gaia. Mine was the seat of Loghrif...
• I shall restore the power of Darkness to this star.
• I shall fulfill my duty as the Oracle of Darkness!
• By the will of the ancients!
• Whispers of ruination... Smite my foe!"
• Past...present...future. Infinite possibilities...condensed into a single moment!
• The abyss awaits!
• Succumb to the Darkness!
• Pain shall be fleeting, joy everlasting... As I wish it, so shall the river of time flow!
• The void beckons!
• Shadows fall!
• Your presence only deepens my solitude! I will erase you and know unending bliss!
• Chaos reigns eternal!
• Return to oblivion!
• My memories will never be taken from me again... Disappear!
• Memories...fading one by one...
• Even if my memory should fade...I will live on!

Unseen

• Whispers of awakening...
• Whispers of resonance...
• In Lord Zodiark's name!

Interestingly, these three were appended to the end of the list, so maybe the list-maker couldn't find them, either. It's possible that the mechanic either wasn't used, was cut from the fight, or is from an attack that's easy to prevent. I mean, the rest of the lines are still pretty "F Yeah Spread the Darkness" but that's no "In Zodiark's Name" on the weighted scale, lol.

And clues from other languages of fight text would be...

J'apporte les Ténèbres absolues sur cette terre!
I will bring absolute Darkness to this land!

Mes mots sont la parole divine...
My words are the words of the divine...

Das Chaos regiert auf ewig!
Chaos will reign forever!

The Japanese version of many of these lines is especially "Zodiarky" (in my humble opinion.)
The "rule stuff in/our first" mindset sucks sometimes, lol.

闇の巫女が紡ぐは神の詞（ことば）……忌まわしき光の使徒を、祓ってくれようぞ……！
The Shrine Maiden (Oracle) of Darkness spins the words of the Divine ... Excise the bearer of the abominable Light!

古の魔力よ！ 創造の泉より湧きて、世界に希望をもたらせ！
Ancient magickal power! From the fount of creation, restore hope to this world!

昏き深淵よ！ いやはてより来たりて、終末を切り裂け！
Twilit Abyss! Come now and rip through the End!

混沌の闇よ！ 天より降りて、光を圧し潰せ！
Darkness of chaos! Descend and annihilate the Light!

死の言霊よ…… 刹那を刻み、終末の到来を遅延させる……！
Spirit (in the words) of Death... carve out this moment and delay the End!

覚醒の言霊よ…… 理想郷では、魂は死せず不滅となる……。
Spirit (in the words) of Awakening... Our utopia, where the soul never dies and immortality is achieved!

虚ろなる大地よ！ 次元を超えて光を喰らい、無へと回帰せよ！
This world is nothing! Consume the Light beyond the dimensions and return all to nothingness!

Tangentially-related spitballing here, but if returning all to nothingness and removing time from the equation, all becoming one in the sea of chaos, counts as immortality ... there might be some overlap with old-school (and admittedly perhaps retconned) takes on Zodiark's ultimate nature.

[Vyrerus]

[*]My memories will never be taken from me again... Disappear!

This kind of makes me wonder if when Ancients died in the Ancients' world, did they keep their memories when they were reborn? That was a theme of memory with the Galka race in FFXI, one of them would keep all of the race's entire memory each time he died. They would experience rebirth, and most would keep some memories of their past life, iirc.

Which makes me wonder, was it possibly Hydaelyn's fault that people lose their memory upon death?

[YianKutku]

It's a good point that Sundered Ascians are also shown as being Coocoo for Zodiark - but it's worth pointing out that people are quite able to become cult-minded without being literally mind-controlled into being so. Perhaps upon being reminded of their original selves by the memory crystals, they were so overwhelmed with awe by memories of Zodiark's amazing power and greatness that they voluntarily began to worship him - no tempering required!

The example I like to bring up is the Sahagin Priest, who had the Echo and thus could not have been tempered by Leviathan, but was just as (if not more) fanatical as his Tempered fellows. That is, until he got eaten by Leviathan, at which point he presumably stopped believing in anything.

There's also the heretics of Ishgard, who were so zealous and fanatical that the Ishgardians believe they had been tempered by Shiva, but it turned out Shiva never tempered anyone, and they were just fanatical because they really believed in their cause.

[ICountFrom0]

This makes me wonder, if they are tempered, did Zodiark give them a message like Hydaelyn gave us? If so, what was it, that they would be able to follow their own wills? I'm still of the mindset that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are just opposite sides of the Will of the Planet, and that they both have the same thing they want...for life to flourish and grow. The difference may be as simple as Zodiark willing to causing great change fast in order for life to flourish, while Hydaelyn wants change to happen slowly over time for life to flourish. Two opposing viewpoints, yet together create how the world itself currently works.

We actually KNOW the message sent by Zodark.

When everybody is given the echo on first, when everybody there is shown the falling stones, there's two responses. Much is said about the "see, hear, feel" of Hydalin, that's noticed, commented on, and remembered. There's another group there, with something else they get. None of that other group get the "see, hear, feel" ... no, they get a feeling of unease, and a longing for a place they never were, and can't possibly remember.

[Alleo]

So what do you all think? Are the leftover sundered Ascians tempered? To what degree can they diverge from the Originals' plan? From what Zodiark wants?

Gaia would be a strong example that the sundered Ascians as soon as they aredestroyed once would not be tempered. Maybe thanks to the memories instead of somehow being tempered again (but then Gaia would have been too?) they simply agree with it and work under the unsundered ones or maybe they somehow get tempered again? I mean if Elidibus is some kind of primal maybe he has a hand in it?

I am someone that just wants the sound to be something natural. Not some kind of sentient being. But what if that is the case? What if something existed and its the one that twisted Fandaniels mind so much, that even as a sundered being he still in some way wants to help it. And recreating the final days might be its way to come back.

Or the memories of his old self have simply be too much and he lost his mind.

I think the idea that they're tempered is flawed from a number of angles.
First and pretty obviously, the Echo. It seemingly (Hydaelyn theories notwithstanding) allows all those who have it to effectively be immune to tempering, we even see Echo-users capable of outright shielding others from the aether of Primals. So, if all the Ancients had the Echo, how were they tempered?

Why would Emet Selch lie about this? He outright states that they are tempered. We dont have a full knowledge of the echo (and honestly it can be what the devs want it to be including being able to see the future...) but wasnt it someone like Zenos who stated that its just a battle of who has more willpower?

Also do we know that the echo as we have it is something from the Ancient ones? Maybe it was even an unique talent even there.

Anyways Zodiark was summoned at a time where the magic of the Ancient ones were going fully out of control. What if part of his power was to temper the minds of the people, so that they wont lose that power again? Or maybe it was a unknown consequence of the deep wish that everything would be under control.