Red Mage Melee Suggestion

[Gorondu]

Please change the potency of the normal melee attacks to the ones of the enchanted versions. I know this sounds much, but this means the magical ranged rotation would still do more dps plus producing black and white mana. The enchanted melee attacks have a smaller recast, so they are still stronger (needed when there are no follow ups in lower levels).

Additionally change the enchanted version of the first attack to cost 80/80 mana and cause the second and third to combo out of it without using any mana. This allows using the normal attacks still at 79 mana without going into the enchanted melee combo.

This change makes the red mage able to use his melee combo when he has to move without losing too much dps. Reprise will still be good as it causes a little bit more damage but costs 5 mana. So reprise would be used if you have to move while out of melee range.

The whole change would make the red mage more of a real hybrid and the normal melee combo would have a reason to exist again. An option would be to even add some small mana gain to the melee attacks.

[Rongway]

Additionally change the enchanted version of the first attack to cost 80/80 mana and cause the second and third to combo out of it without using any mana.

It's not 80|80 on start because you would waste 50|50 if you could not follow through with the combo. This happens often enough when learning new fights that this would just be frustrating.

This allows using the normal attacks still at 79 mana without going into the enchanted melee combo.

This change makes the red mage able to use his melee combo when he has to move without losing too much dps.

RDM barely has to stand still as it is. You can move 3s at a time after every 2s spent casting, and you can E.Reprise about once per minute without losing DPS. If you're losing too much DPS from movement, practice slide casting, using E.Reprise once per minute (or twice every two minutes), and Swiftcast once per minute.

The whole change would make the red mage more of a real hybrid and the normal melee combo would have a reason to exist again.

Please no.

End-game encounter design is heavily skewed toward having two melee and two ranged DDs, and making RDM even more melee-oriented than it already is will just put us in an even worse position. As it stands, we have to know fights from both a melee perspective and a ranged perspective so that we can take up a melee spot in a party with a ranger and another caster, and we can take up a ranged spot in a party with two melee DDs.

If RDM gets a higher focus on melee damage, we lose out in parties with two melee DDs, because they have to be in melee spots, and the other casters would have an even higher lead on us at range so why bring a RDM at all.

[Gruntler]

Please change the potency of the normal melee attacks to the ones of the enchanted versions. I know this sounds much, but this means the magical ranged rotation would still do more dps plus producing black and white mana. The enchanted melee attacks have a smaller recast, so they are still stronger (needed when there are no follow ups in lower levels).

1-2-3: (220+290+470)/5.2 seconds=188.46 potency per second.
Verstone->Verthunder =680/5 seconds=136 potency per second, which is a disparity of about 48 potency per second.

The potency per second of Verholy->Scorch =600+700/5=260 potency per second. However, this is in stead of your basic spell combo, so instead, we must look at the difference to determine the value of the finisher: (600+700)-(680) = 620 additional potency across those five seconds.

620/48=12.9 which means that the value you gain from using your finisher is actually less than 13 seconds of having melee constantly up and going 1-2-3. This is just over 5 gcds. And bear in mind, this is in the ideal situation of having perfect procs. The damage disparity grows more in practice.

Even the best opener can't build to the finisher in 5 gcds.

What this means is that your suggestion would change RDM so that the optimal gcd rotation would become:

1) Use your 1-2-3 combo
2) Do ogcd things between the combo.

The change would not make the red mage more of a real hybrid. It would make it a level 26 lancer.

Look, if you want the fantasy of being a melee-stabber who occasionally uses magic, that exists. It's called 'Ninja.' I'm here for the dualcasting--you know--the thing RDM's actually known for in the series.

[Eloah]

This suggestion confuses me. For starters it would mess with the whole gimmick RDM has, that works. Also, while its not advised, especially after you get Reprise, but if you need to use the un-enchanted version of their melee combo, for whatever reason, it still deals decent damage. A good example is the Construct 8 boss in Ridorana, when the boss is moving with that laser attack. You need to be close and don't have much time to cast spells, but the melee combo still hits decently.

[Burningskull]

What about a melee move that triggers after Scortch. You could then have Scortch reset your gap closer and evasive move so you could get in close, use the melee ability and then dash away.

[iVolke]

Red mage is not a hybrid job. It is a caster with 4 close range attacks. It's fine how it is.

[Gorondu]

I'm misunderstood. The normal rotation should not change at all. It should only make the 1-2-3 combo usable when we have to move without losing too much dps and without triggering the enchanted melee combo when below 80/80 mana.

[Seraphor]

Isn't that what Reprise is for?

I could see giving the unenchanted melee combo a ~50 potency buff on all three skills, that shouldn't make it more attractive than your spells, especially as it doesn't have the reduced GCD effect.
But not triggering enchanted skills until 80/80 is a no go.
As it stands if you enter melee combo and get cut short for one reason or another, you only loose the 30 or 55 mana you've spent, and not all 80.

[Gorondu]

As it stands if you enter melee combo and get cut short for one reason or another, you only loose the 30 or 55 mana you've spent, and not all 80.

Good point. Didn't thought about any disadvantage that could have.

How about the cost stays the same, but the enchanted version only gets active at 80 mana? The second and third attack have to combo out of the first of course.

[Rilifane]

Please no.

End-game encounter design is heavily skewed toward having two melee and two ranged DDs, and making RDM even more melee-oriented than it already is will just put us in an even worse position. As it stands, we have to know fights from both a melee perspective and a ranged perspective so that we can take up a melee spot in a party with a ranger and another caster, and we can take up a ranged spot in a party with two melee DDs.

If RDM gets a higher focus on melee damage, we lose out in parties with two melee DDs, because they have to be in melee spots, and the other casters would have an even higher lead on us at range so why bring a RDM at all.

This so much.
I already had to fight tooth and nails for tanks and melees to leave me one tiny spot for a measly ~5s during mechanics like Thunderstorm on e5s or that I can stay a bit closer during HoH on e6s so I don't have to delay it and mess up the subsquent timing. More often than not they were unwilling because it put everyone at a signifcant higher risk and I've seen so many deaths happen when a RdM was in a double melee comp and everyone played more on the greedy side.
And those were only a handful of mechanics. Now imagine having to more or less permanently deal witht this.
You already have to be really careful on some fights with your gap closer and melee combo, adding more melee-ranged skills will either constantly cost dps because you won't be able to use them freely or put others at great risk/ killing them when the timing or positioning was slightly off.

Endgame fights aren't designed for 2 1/2 melees, period. Even with two melees one often has to bite the bullet and lose uptime. No double melee comp half serious about their performance would take a RdM.