FF14 devs just keep doing your thing because my god

[Yamr3]

FFXIV has story, graphics, class identity and feel.

WoW has high end PvE content (Mythic+ and Raiding)

Till SE figures out how to not drop what they're doing and make raiding feel like raiding and something like Mythic+ that's relevant the entire expansion to the next one, neither will be superior over the other entirely. They both serve and miss marks entirely because two different type of players.

[Shougun]

FFXIV has . . . class identity and feel.

Graphically I agree but I feel WoW has a lot of extra flair to their classes so I'd personally give class feel to WoW. Demon Hunters get wings, Death Knights can walk on water, Mages have portals, druids can transform into mount form mid air and in combat smoothly and can let others mount them, warlocks with their party teleport skill, etc, etc. There is something that constantly, usually, makes you feel special and reminds you of your class in WoW that honestly I don't feel consistently in FFXIV. Like being a red mage with dual cast and raise is a big highlight that makes you feel special, but that's not each job and some of their specials are not that emphasized. WoW sometimes messes this up really bad and produces some really bad balance for certain trees / classes.. (which is why I suggest FFXIV try to do this more on the role play / outdoorsy side) but I still think WoW, when it's not poorly balanced, has a stronger sense of class identity (gameplay 'vibe' wise, not visually).

I like the gameplay feeling of FFXIV over WoW, I've not played high end WoW in aaaaagggesss but I just remember my hunter's rotation being this mana hungry mess rather than the methodical fun dance in FFXIV. But I want to say I've not played in ages so, not sure how high end classes feel now.

I definfetly feel FFXIV could be inspired by some of WoW's desires to add identity to jobs. Like why does Dragoon take fall damage? Not that but perhaps he should be able to jump higher too. There are ways you can add flair without it messing things up, and far more carefully perhaps in actual combat too (although the combat differences are obviously the waaaaaaaay harder one to deal with, especially if you want to be concerned about end game content which is a good concern to have ).


Definitely agree to that last bit though that the end goal player is different in both games (well in general to all the other points as well, just not so much on the class identity- visually I'm reminded of my job, mechanically sometimes, but the feel and uses I get out of it even less so, I feel those feelings are flipped when I played WoW... looong ago lol. And some of those reasons are fair, balance in WoW, especially when I played way back when was like "what's balance? No seriously what is that? Can I eat it?". . It was reallllly bad for some jobs back then xD.).

[Rae88]

Graphically I agree but I feel WoW has a lot of extra flare to their classes so I'd personally give class feel to WoW. Demon Hunters get wings, Death Knights can walk on water, Mages have portals, druids can transform into mount form mid air and in combat smoothly and can let others mount them, warlocks with their party teleport skill, etc, etc. There is something that constantly, usually, makes you feel special and reminds you of your class in WoW that honestly I don't feel consistently in FFXIV. Like being a red mage with dual cast and raise is a big highlight that makes you feel special, but that's not each job and some of their specials are not that emphasized. WoW sometimes messes this up really bad and produces some really bad balance for certain trees / classes.. (which is why I suggest FFXIV try to do this more on the role play / outdoorsy side) but I still think WoW, when it's not poorly balanced, has a stronger sense of class identity (gameplay 'vibe' wise, not visually).

I like the gameplay feeling of FFXIV over WoW, I've not played high end WoW in aaaaagggesss but I just remember my hunter's rotation being this mana hungry mess rather than the methodical fun dance in FFXIV. But I want to say I've not played in ages so, not sure how high end classes feel now.

I definfetly feel FFXIV could be inspired by some of WoW's desires to add identity to jobs. Like why does Dragoon take fall damage? Not that but perhaps he should be able to jump higher too. There are ways you can add flare without it messing things up, and far more carefully perhaps in actual combat too (although the combat differences are obviously the waaaaaaaay harder one to deal with, especially if you want to be concerned about end game content which is a good concern to have ).


Definitely agree to that last bit though that the end goal player is different in both games (well in general to all the other points as well, just not so much on the class identity- visually I'm reminded of my job, mechanically sometimes, but the feel and uses I get out of it even less so, I feel those feelings are flipped when I played WoW... looong ago lol. And some of those reasons are fair, balance in WoW, especially when I played way back when was like "what's balance? No seriously what is that? Can I eat it?". . It was reallllly bad for some jobs back then xD.).

Wow has a different kinda problem with class feel. That is the community feels class identity in WoW has been lost in favour of spec identity, which has also helped in the button count pruning.

Like if you play as a Shadow Priest in WoW, it feels really hard to actually feel like a priest

[linayar]

There is something that constantly, usually, makes you feel special and reminds you of your class in WoW that honestly I don't feel consistently in FFXIV.

That's because WoW lacks something that is ingrained to FFXIV: the character of the WoL itself, which transcends any job. Mage portal, DH wing, DK walking on water would be things that the WoL can do (not exactly the same features, but the general idea) regardless of the job: teleporting/attuning with aetherytes/aethernets, flying and diving with any and all mounts, even switching jobs.

[Shougun]

Wow has a different kinda problem with class feel. That is the community feels class identity in WoW has been lost in favour of spec identity, which has also helped in the button count pruning.

Like if you play as a Shadow Priest in WoW, it feels really hard to actually feel like a priest

Yeah, we don't want that system :P. I don't think jobs need 'specs'. I just think the jobs need more flair, when possible (not harming balance).

Merely talking about the extra effort they went into flare for jobs. That doesn't happen so much here, and while some of it is because of balance (fair concern) there are plenty of opportunities to do so that wont hurt balance.

That's because WoW lacks something that is ingrained to FFXIV: the character of the WoL itself, which transcends any job. Mage portal, DH wing, DK walking on water would be things that the WoL can do (not exactly the same features, but the general idea) regardless of the job: teleporting/attuning with aetherytes/aethernets, flying and diving with any and all mounts, even switching jobs.

Sort of. When you're a dragoon you don't tank. Even though you're WoL you don't transcend your job in combat.

Certain features make sense to transcend jobs sure, but even then there is clearly room they could do more. Like Ninja has on all fours passive as an example. Dragoon could be rocking reduced fall damage, which would go in line with their identity of the lords of jump.

Another example is playing music doesn't transcend jobs.

I understand what you're trying to get it, but it's only sort of true and I don't think it hurts anyone if a dragoon could jump higher or take less fall damage simply to better give that job identity. Nor is it out of place concept in the game, given ninja passive or bard music.

[linayar]

Sort of. When you're a dragoon you don't tank. Even though you're WoL you don't transcend your job in combat.

Certain features make sense to transcend jobs sure, but even then there is clearly room they could do more. Like Ninja has on all fours passive as an example. Dragoon could be rocking reduced fall damage, which would go in line with their identity of the lords of jump.

Another example is playing music doesn't transcend jobs.

I understand what you're trying to get it, but it's only sort of true and I don't think it hurts anyone if a dragoon could jump higher or take less fall damage simply to better give that job identity. Nor is it out of place concept in the game, given ninja passive or bard music.

The easy explanation for playing music is that it's tied to your arms. That's how abilities are limited to certain jobs and is the one defining identity of a job or class in FFXIV.

And yes, there are other certain abilities that don't transcend jobs, like a dragoon cannot tank and a dragoon cannot cook either. But that's why the WoL isn't simply the WoL. It's not one or the other, but both. It's the WoL + whatever current job/class that is being used.

[Puremallace]

FFXIV has story, graphics, class identity and feel.

WoW has high end PvE content (Mythic+ and Raiding)

Till SE figures out how to not drop what they're doing and make raiding feel like raiding and something like Mythic+ that's relevant the entire expansion to the next one, neither will be superior over the other entirely. They both serve and miss marks entirely because two different type of players.

Go look at the recent Mythic + updates because they actually ruined it. Turns out it was competing too much with raid drops and well Blizzard cannot have that so they gutted the rewards in their latest expansion. Also you seem to be confusing the two developers.

Blizzard uses raids as a gear delivery system which is why everything else in the game is pretty garbage when it comes to gear acquisition. The raids are hit or miss with zerg bosses that barely anyone remembers from one patch cycle to the next and everyone having some strange nostalgia years later about how fun it actually was because the bar has been lowered so far.

This MMO is just not designed for high end pve raid content because the UI is trash and not allowing addons makes it harder to coordinate on raid leaders.

[Yamr3]

Go look at the recent Mythic + updates because they actually ruined it. Turns out it was competing too much with raid drops and well Blizzard cannot have that so they gutted the rewards in their latest expansion. Also you seem to be confusing the two developers.

Blizzard uses raids as a gear delivery system which is why everything else in the game is pretty garbage when it comes to gear acquisition. The raids are hit or miss with zerg bosses that barely anyone remembers from one patch cycle to the next and everyone having some strange nostalgia years later about how fun it actually was because the bar has been lowered so far.

This MMO is just not designed for high end pve raid content because the UI is trash and not allowing addons makes it harder to coordinate on raid leaders.

I play WoW currently and maintain myself at a competitive level, names RaiColette-Moonguard and check the 2 sites for end gamers if you know what I mean. Dunno if we're allowed to say it on the forums, as it's not allowed to be talked about in game in FFXIV.

Anyways, I called Mythic+ being ruined with the changes back when it hit the PTR in Spring-ish I think March or May. I've been voicing my complaint with the changes to Mythic+ since they started jacking it up because of their "Raid or Die" mindset that Raiding has to be the end be all for anything PvE in the game when there's 4 end games available (Raiding, Mythic+, PvP, & World Content).

So, yes, I do know the state of current WoW. Yes, Mythic+ sucks really bad right now but it still has me logging in and doing end game PvE while FFXIV doesn't. To each their own but FFXIV end game needs to step up its raiding to feel like raiding and make something like Mythic+ that stays relevant throughout the entire expansion to the next expansion as well. If they do this, then and only then, in my opinion of course, will FFXIV be the better MMO than WoW. Considering the player base is mostly casual, I doubt I'll get this thrill and longing to want to do something hard everyday like Mythic+ did for Legion and BfA in WoW until SL jacked it up with the dungeons, new crappy affixes, and tuning, that to be fair, the tuning has gotten better but months too late.

I like FFXIV for the story, prettiness, class identity compared to WoW, and the feel of the game. I like how playing a SAM I can, relatively speaking, feel like I'm doing Samurai things. Likewise to RDM as well. I find FFXIV's end game extremely lacking compared to what I've experienced playing WoW since the start of pre-Legion. If FFXIV fixes raiding and adds something like Mythic+ for me to endlessly chase for a thrill and challenge, I will say and die on that hill that FFXIV is the better MMO.

Til then, I stand by what I originally said. The games cater to two completely different players and nothing wrong with that; because my sub to FFXIV is mostly still active and being carried because of the story.

[Nayout]

This MMO is just not designed for high end pve raid content...

Not em.
This game is not made for the High End community in PVE due to the lack of development of this content, the amount of bosses that each raid brings in the Wow counts with the amount we have here.

While Wow has the use of mythical + and raid even a "High End" zone like the Maws or the new zone that comes in 9.1 in FFXIV we don't have anything, the closest thing we had was Eureka in Stormblood.

The UI in this game works perfectly and the general content is mostly thrown without the use of addons or anything because coordinating 8 people is not the same as 25 and it is not the same as here, much of the content is intuitive, you can see that is going to make a boss because the animations of the bosses help this, all the fights are made so that you only have to look what happens around and calculate. In Wow it is impossible to predict many abilities because they usually involve RNG, making the fighting a chaos from which you have to solve it, I often still eat aoes in Wow because the animations of these or the bosses are too orthopedic.

FFXIV has a more stable community and content schedule, and we have a dev-team and leadership here who not only actually PLAY their own game but also who treat us as actual people not just wallets with legs. They tell u...

Yoshida is a very good dev, do you know what the problem is? SE
Do you think they charge us 5 dollars for a fucking mobile application for premium functions while in the wow their application can I do everything for free?

That they have not done the same here? That they say that they delay the Ultimate for 5.5 months ago for the same day of the live letter to say that it would not be until 6.1? It was so difficult to communicate it months ago that as much as possible they would not have Ultimate for 5.5 ,?

Seriously, when I read them, I don't know if they deliberately omit information or that they really do not know the problems of this game

On...

Come on, you speak as if in Wow you cannot be casual, we are talking about a game that has an absurd amount of achievements, secret achievements in the world, treasures, reputations and mounts.

For the rest, you talk about Ego as if in this game there was no go when we have people who buy kills for 1000 dollars of an Ultimate and then show the weapon to everyone and give lessons on how to be a good player like a certain clown in Excalibur. People who buy logs to increase their ego in the game and yes, guess this game also has temporary rewards!

I remind you of Garo's rewards? the ones from the 18 seasons of The Feast?

[Ralph2449]

Come on, you speak as if in Wow you cannot be casual, we are talking about a game that has an absurd amount of achievements, secret achievements in the world, treasures, reputations and mounts.

For the rest, you talk about Ego as if in this game there was no go when we have people who buy kills for 1000 dollars of an Ultimate and then show the weapon to everyone and give lessons on how to be a good player like a certain clown in Excalibur.?

Depends on what you mean by casual, if you see casual as someone who doesnt touch "hard" content and does 5 year old content then yeah, you can say WoW isnt terribad for casuals but then you can say any game that has lasted for years is a great casual game, but for people who enjoy playing a game casually as an mmorpg, like gear progression and current content and a bit of everything like myself, WoW treats casuals with absolute disdain and the community is even worse in their treatment of casuals which they see as "inferior" because all that matters to fragile egos is "video game achievements".
Gear progression has pretty much been gutted from casual content because high end raider/streamers complained they were "forced" to play the rest of the game instead of raid log, we got the last difficulty of a deep dungeon that takes 2 hours and gives nothing more than a mount to make dailies faster, 0 gear rewards or even any form of appearance, they spend a ton of effort making that entire thing but because their high end tryhards complained they didnt know what rewards to put so they put nothing.


And yeah there are always gamers TM with fragile egos that obsess over high end content in all games, the issue is WoW is heavily focusing on that type of unhealthy mentality and with their changes throughout the years has lead to a community full of obnoxious elitists, tryhards and meta slaves that dont play a game as a video game, it is almost like a job they hate but they do it because their self worth depends on it, I play an mmorpg as a video game, not something to be taken seriously, so even if I am able to do mythic raids in WoW the community is so bad I simply am not gonna touch even self proclaimed "casual mythic" guilds, and pugging has become even worse with the amount of tryhards only wanting meta combs and tanks/healers never joining your groups unless you have a huge IO score you can only get by somehow doing all dungeons at a high level, good luck pugging all those unless you enjoy spending hours waiting to form a group only to disband halfway into the dungeon.

Of course that also works for blizzard because the token price has remained low since the launch of the Xpac meaning there's a huge supply of tokens from people buying them, and I am guessing all that irl money bought gold goes directly to the hundreds of server and off server boosters that fill trade these days.