FF14 devs just keep doing your thing because my god

[ZedxKayn]

Fine. Then FFXIV isn't an MMO, it's a single-player campaign with Instanced Content you can play with other players. Like Genshin Impact or Dungeon Fighter Online. I don't really see your point.

XIV is a MMO whether you like it or not lmao

You compared WoW and XIV in a way that implied that, in contrast to WoW, XIV is not a MMO, which is blatantly false, then that XIV is story first MMO second which is a terrible excuse people use to justify their lack of care towards how they treat other players in the game.

It is BOTH a FF game AND a theme park MMORPG, not one before the other. Saying that it's "story first" is incredibly dismissive of everything else the devs put work towards, especially battle content which is pretty extensive. The story is just some of the massive amount of CONTENT offered by the game whereas MMORPG is the genre the game falls into.

[KenXSSS]

XIV is a MMO whether you like it or not lmao

You compared WoW and XIV in a way that implied that, in contrast to WoW, XIV is not a MMO, which is blatantly false, then that XIV is story first MMO second which is a terrible excuse people use to justify their lack of care towards how they treat other players in the game.

It is BOTH a FF game AND a theme park MMORPG, not one before the other. Saying that it's "story first" is incredibly dismissive of everything else the devs put work towards, especially battle content which is pretty extensive. The story is just some of the massive amount of CONTENT offered by the game whereas MMORPG is the genre the game falls into.

If you wanted a serious discussion, you would not be using an alt.

And here you reveal to everybody that you haven't played modern World of Warcraft. Modern WoW is more of a single player game than FFXIV, considering you can play the entire game solo without ever having to play with other people. At least FFXIV has compulsory dungeoning, WoW doesn't even have that. It's a single player game without a story.

Now Classic WoW was definitely a multiplayer game but modern WoW has long since abandoned those game designs.

EDIT: And you have played modern WoW then your post is just deceptive. Why is a game that you can play solo, don't have to dungeon, don't have to raid, and don't have to interact with anybody at all EVER designed as an MMO first?

Also while WoW has a more convenient transmog SYSTEM, the transmog options are severely lacking. Not only is there a lack of variety, half the options look painted on and half are very low resolution and can be jarring when mixing and matching. Transmog/Glamour is something I convincingly give to FFXIV hands down considering Blizzard obviously doesn't care about transmog options.

I have 5 level 60's in SL, I think the one who hasn't played WoW is you. You can get 1-60 in Classic via Solo Mage Grinding or even questing solo and you can skip Raiding early on with green drops and crafting. In Modern you can 1-60 with Solo Questing, I don't see your point bruh

[ZedxKayn]

If you wanted a serious discussion, you would not be using an alt.

If you wanted a serious discussion, you wouldn't be dismissing other's points through ad hominems.
Give me undeniable proof that I am someone's alt or tell me what genre did SE list FFXIV as in their own online store.

[Nayout]

Depends on what you mean by casual, if you see casual as someone who doesnt touch "hard" content and does 5 year old content then yeah, you can say WoW isnt terribad for casuals but then you can say any game that has lasted for years is a great casual game, but for people who enjoy playing a game casually as an mmorpg, like gear progression and current content and a bit of everything like myself, WoW treats casuals with absolute disdain and the community is even worse in their treatment of casuals which they see as "inferior" because all that matters to fragile egos is "video game achievements".
server and off server boosters that fill trade these day...

Dude wat?
Boy, I am currently a damn casual in the Wow I have an ilvl of 210 and if I am lucky I do 3 mytics a week while I am in a group that does heroic 6 hours a week and we are already 7/12. All super relaxed without worrying or anything

We can complain that the loot system sucks but to say that you don't have "space" for being casual is a damn lie when it is simply looking for a group of people with similarities to your ideas. Those who most use the excuse of virtual egos are the first to be offended by what a group of people say about you and the first to feel attacked when they cannot be equipped to the same level as a person who has Mytic progress

And please, let's not use Torghast as an argument when those floors are totally optional in the same way that it is optional here to complete the 200 floors of Palace of the dead.
The real problem is that you try to aspire to more than you can and this is a problem with a LOT of people in Wow who try to do things that they cannot for time, because they are not good, etc, etc.

Find your SPACE in the game, stop looking at the rest and stop listening to every nonsense that a random tells you. My aspirations are to complete this tier in Heroic and get the mount of 15+ because it is something that I can do both for time and for my ability and I do not mind what the rest do. I say all this as Hunter BM, a spect with the lowest dps in the meta. Wow has a lot of balance problems for raids with some spects that affect community, last week on a 12+ the tank tried to make me switch to MM, I didn't pay attention to it we completed the dungeon and I was top DPS.

I'm old enough to remember when Heroic meant you needed a coordinated group and used CC to take down trash packs much less bosses.

The only Heroics that required CC were in BC and early in Cataclyms before all the Heroics were massively nerfed by the crying of the community when the dungeons of the trolls came out. During ALL of LK and the dungeons they introduced in Dragon Soul, no one used CC because it was a waste of time.

[Ralph2449]

The real problem is that you try to aspire to more than you can

Ah yes the "casuals are bad so they dont deserve good gear" mentality, yeah EVERYONE should have a way to get decent gear, and by that I dont mean a single piece a week that is completely RNG dependent on their casino gear system which of course doesnt get affected by any form of casual or solo content.

I was pugging 14s on my affl lock at the start of January and had pugged full heroic, thing is affl lock was seen as "meta" at the time so changed to assa rogue, bought fill 200 covenant set and mythic boes and was 205 first week after I was done, guess what, the only way to do m+ at then was to buy boosts, why? If you didnt have 1.2k IO good luck getting into groups, and you should know even 1kIO requires all dungeons to be done and above 10, so good luck getting a non meta class get into those no matter how good you are.

Of course you might be happy to wait for hours to do a +5 and have a ton of groups disband midway and quite literally spend months to only reach the +11 wall where people require 1.2k io for 12+ these days which you arent gonna get without boosts or a static team within guilds.

So please dont confuse casual with one's ability and imply "they aspire more than they can"

to say that you don't have "space" for being casual is a damn lie

Gear progression completely gutted for casuals who are stuck near 200ilvl unless they force themselves to play with obnoxious elitists and metaslaves, the "you must be trolling to play non meta spec" type, challenging solo content exists yet rewards have been stripped from it because tryhards complained, their "casual" rewards include a huge anima grind for silly upgrades and mogs that dont give any power and take MONTHS to upgrade fully.

And please, let's not use Torghast as an argument when those floors are totally optional in the same way that it is optional here to complete the 200 floors of Palace of the dead.

That was never the point, the point was that challenging solo content exists yet the devs because they pander to high end removed rewards because god forbid the elitists are forced to play the "dirty casual content, they got no time for that", this was admitted when they said in alpha that "they dont want to repeat horrific visions" when it comes to gear.

last week on a 12+ the tank tried to make me switch to MM, I didn't pay attention to it we completed the dungeon and I was top DPS.

Great proof of how full of metaslaves even low end community has become, it doesnt matter if you are decent or if they arent that skilled, they ll still push you to become a metaslave, thank god SE has rules against compelling playstyles on others because that attitude has run rampart within the entire WoW community.

[Rae88]

I have 5 level 60's in SL, I think the one who hasn't played WoW is you. You can get 1-60 in Classic via Solo Mage Grinding or even questing solo and you can skip Raiding early on with green drops and crafting. In Modern you can 1-60 with Solo Questing, I don't see your point bruh

You obviously don't know what you're talking about if you're using being able to solo grind as a mage in Classic to try and say you can always complete the game solo. Try solo grinding in Classic on a Warrior. You also had to form your own groups because dungeon finder wasn't a thing, you had to form groups to protect against PvP, and you had to form groups so people wouldn't steal your mobs.

You still haven't mentioned how a game able to be played completely solo is being designed as an MMO "first" btw. The fact of the matter is if you think that modern WoW is developed as an MMO first you don't play modern WoW or you're being disingenuous. Really that simple. Blizzard abandoned their "MMO first" ideals when they shifted WoW to being the ultimate Themepark.

I'll use your example from earlier, modern WoW is an instanced based game like Genshin Impact. I would say it's multiplayer but you can skip all that so grindy lobby game without the cute girls for appeal I guess. Would that fit your definition?